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Old 8th April 2005, 11:36 AM   #1
phimor is offline phimor  Australia
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Default Philips CD200 need help trouble shooting

Hi

I hope someone can help me here. I have looked up the search, and found many clues, but I think I now have to tap into the collective consciousness of this board.

This is a project I started fifteen years ago, when my (relatively) new CD200 just stopped suddenly. All advice from techs at the time was - the laser's had it.

OK - so I scrounge a spare diode assembly, fit it and no better. Give up, put everything in its original box, and get on with life..


Recently came accross this board, and interest in the 14 bit machine is re-awaken.


So the symtoms are:


CDP turns on, all lights correct. Press play, spins disk 4 times (one long, 3 short) and make a two note chimes between attemps.

I can see the red dot on the lens, so the laser is working. Because I replaced it (15 years ago!) I think it's probably not aligned optically, but I have tried moving the assembly incrementaly in several position (rotation and in and out) and found 'extreme' positions where it no longer detects the disk (no spin).

I then adjusted it to the 'middle' of the extremes. I know its a bit rough but I have no test gear.

So now I need some help to proceed more accuratly. I think with the trial and error approach I risk really screwing up big time.


Some of the other things I have tried:

re-flowed many 'dodgy looking' solder joints. (no appreciable difference)

exchanged the pick-up with one from a broken Meridian - (similar unit, but not the same - spindle different enough that the puck does not fit). Same behaviour anyway.

I'm starting to think the problem is elswhere... but I have no clue on how to proceed with more sophisticated troubleshooting.


So what next?

Thanks

Philippe
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Old 28th July 2005, 02:00 PM   #2
phimor is offline phimor  Australia
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Hi,

at the risk of turning this into a blog..

I got the laser aligned . Turned out my hunch was right about something else being wrong with the servo circuit.

How I did it:
first read all other posts. Then ordered the manuals from Ultranalogue. Then found a broken CD202. This was the best break, (after fixing it) it allowed me to swap over components and really narrow the problem spots. (In a way both players helped each other).

This is how I fined tuned the laser alignment, by setting it up on the CD202. When the laser sub assembly was aligned (process as per first post) I 'glued' it in position with some nail polish. (When asked, my wife said 'what colour').

I bought a cheap 'scope, and adjusted the eye pattern to just over one volt ptp. The manual says 1 volt, others on this board consistently say 1.2 to 1.5...?

A note of caution here. The pot on the laser gain works in the opposite direction to what you would think. What I mean is clockwise DE-creases gain, and counterclockwise increases gain. Before I got the scope I thought I would be kind to the new diode and turned the pot down..
without realising that was full bore...

The other pot that needed ajustment was the focus gain. At first it was literally 'ringing' (to tight a loop, I guess) and had to back off almost 1/2 a turn (also opposite to what ypu'd expect). I turned it down untill it stopped being noisy. Then you need to fine tune this with the player attached to an amp, so the 'ringing' can be heard in the speakers, and tweaked down further.

So with the transport sorted out I attacked the servo board. After many frustrating trials, sustituting components (well, as I said, I don't really know what I'm doing 1/2 the time) it turned out to be a shorted 27n cap on the focus op-amp.

Should've suspected something when the reading on the op-amp output were cycling on-off. (short circuit...now I know).

So another CDM0 player lives.

Cheers

Philippe
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Old 24th March 2006, 09:30 AM   #3
mkaroly is offline mkaroly  Hungary
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Default Need help

Hi Philippe!
I need some help for my Philips 202.
(Sorry for my English.. not to good)

I have this player so 3 days. The problem was: sometimes automatically skipped some seconds. I have cleaned the lens. It was wery dusty.

grrr.

The player presently wont play. The disk spin up, but the track do not begin.

Have Youe any idea, what can i do?
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Old 26th March 2006, 12:39 AM   #4
phimor is offline phimor  Australia
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Hi Mkaroly.

I'd like to help you, but you need to be more acurate with the description of the symptoms

Did you look at my previous post and see where the fault was? There are two postings about a CD 200 and CD202, different faults - one is a capacitor, the other the PLL ic that 'talks' to the Sony board. Yours could be different again. The schema is very useful, with a little reflection. I got mine from ultranalogue (sp?).

In my experience with these machines, the laser is the last thing you should suspect, I guess if they have lasted 20 years, they'l last another twenty - diodes fail straight away or last forever (almost).

Back to the point:

Does it read the TOC?
Is there sound?
Does it respond to comands, eg next track?

God luck, and please come back with more info.

Cheers

Philippe
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Old 26th March 2006, 08:18 AM   #5
mkaroly is offline mkaroly  Hungary
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Thank You for Your reply!

Here is your symptom:
"Well, the CD202 would play from cold, then after a short time it would speed up (wierd - hey) not so much a rise in pich as just a faster beat. Then the sound would distort - become sort of metallic. I imagined something like a Dalek playing music, if Daleks played music. This was followed shortly by just noise and shut down. Repeated starts only shortened the time before failure, until it would not even read the TOC."

My problem was the same without the "speed up". The sound will disort and skipped some seconds at times ...

Then i cleansed the lens.
The symptoms presently:
-The player turn on. The leds are on, the drawer is ok.
-The disk spin up. In short time the disk get spinning faster and faster. I think its too fast! The lens try to focusing and make some horizontal movement. (I think try to find the begin of the disk.)
-Don't have TOC, for that reason:
-The playing does not begin
-The Time display is off
-Can't skip tracks
But it respond to comands, eg STOP, REPLAY.

I have read your (and other) posts. I try'd to strenghten some solderjoints. I have found a Capacitor, it was not perfect soldered !!!! But the player wont play.

In your post:
"I can see the red dot on the lens, so the laser is working."

I Can't see anything on the lens. Should I see something?

I can't find Website: ultranalogue. Possibe getting the service manual from You with mail? Or suggest You a Website, to download from?

Many Thank for Your help!
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Old 26th March 2006, 08:42 AM   #6
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
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Try adding a 12k resistor parallel to the existing 12k between pin 1 and 2 of the MC1458N (pos.6208) focus motor driver IC.

/Hugo
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Old 26th March 2006, 09:15 AM   #7
phimor is offline phimor  Australia
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Hi Mkaroly,

with the manual, I bought mine from ultranalogue, and with the 20 or so other manuals it is quite a useful resource. I recommend him.

try http://www.ultranalog.com/ and follow the link to 'sale'

It does sound like the player is loosing control of the turntable motor. If the disk spins too fast, the buffer overflows and it stops.

So I would concentrate on the Phase locked loop IC that was the trouble in mine. HEF4046, its clearly labelled on the top right of the decode board (thats the top most board with the additional Sony piggy-back board). Maybe you're having trouble with the clock on the microprocessor, IC MAB844? . All the electrolitic caps should be considered suspect.

Also look at the turntable control section of the servo board, thats the lower board, the part of the circuit that is in line with the large transistors on a metal heat sink on the edge. Near the centre you will find an IC MC148N with 2 transitors nearby, this is the turntable amplifier. Check the solder around here and change the electro caps. (I think this is less likely to be the problem).

The laser is very hard to see, almost on the edge of the human eye spectrum, but in the dark, you can just see a tiny dot on the surface of the lense - without a disc the player will try 2 times to find the toc. DON'T LOOK STRAIGHT INTO IT, only at an angle.

Anyway, yours plays music, so there is nothing wrong with the laser

You should replace all electrolitic capacitors as a matter of course, you will find the player sounds 'fresher', and more reliable.

To get to the servo bard, its easier to remove the decode board, just undo all the connectors on the decode board and the four screws. (identify the plugs, as at least two are the same - they can be quite firm, so be careful and don't break anything).

See how you go

Cheers

Philippe
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Old 27th March 2006, 06:35 AM   #8
mkaroly is offline mkaroly  Hungary
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Hi!

I have dissasembled the servo and the decoder board for strenghten some solder joint. I have found a broken part on the decoder board. It was soldered (maybe in service) above.
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Old 27th March 2006, 06:35 AM   #9
mkaroly is offline mkaroly  Hungary
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I have patched this soldering.

Then i have reassembled the parts, and the player read the TOC, and play the first tracks. But after the 7.-8. track i hear some high freq noise from laser unit (not from loudspeaker). After few seconds the sound being disorted, then stopped.
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Old 27th March 2006, 09:01 AM   #10
mkaroly is offline mkaroly  Hungary
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Is possible, that this highfreq sound come from electronic error? Or only can be mechanical?
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