Hi
I hope someone can help me here. I have looked up the search, and found many clues, but I think I now have to tap into the collective consciousness of this board.
This is a project I started fifteen years ago, when my (relatively) new CD200 just stopped suddenly. All advice from techs at the time was - the laser's had it.
OK - so I scrounge a spare diode assembly, fit it and no better. Give up, put everything in its original box, and get on with life..
Recently came accross this board, and interest in the 14 bit machine is re-awaken.
So the symtoms are:
CDP turns on, all lights correct. Press play, spins disk 4 times (one long, 3 short) and make a two note chimes between attemps.
I can see the red dot on the lens, so the laser is working. Because I replaced it (15 years ago!) I think it's probably not aligned optically, but I have tried moving the assembly incrementaly in several position (rotation and in and out) and found 'extreme' positions where it no longer detects the disk (no spin).
I then adjusted it to the 'middle' of the extremes. I know its a bit rough but I have no test gear.
So now I need some help to proceed more accuratly. I think with the trial and error approach I risk really screwing up big time.
Some of the other things I have tried:
re-flowed many 'dodgy looking' solder joints. (no appreciable difference)
exchanged the pick-up with one from a broken Meridian - (similar unit, but not the same - spindle different enough that the puck does not fit). Same behaviour anyway.
I'm starting to think the problem is elswhere... but I have no clue on how to proceed with more sophisticated troubleshooting.
So what next?
Thanks
Philippe
I hope someone can help me here. I have looked up the search, and found many clues, but I think I now have to tap into the collective consciousness of this board.
This is a project I started fifteen years ago, when my (relatively) new CD200 just stopped suddenly. All advice from techs at the time was - the laser's had it.
OK - so I scrounge a spare diode assembly, fit it and no better. Give up, put everything in its original box, and get on with life..
Recently came accross this board, and interest in the 14 bit machine is re-awaken.
So the symtoms are:
CDP turns on, all lights correct. Press play, spins disk 4 times (one long, 3 short) and make a two note chimes between attemps.
I can see the red dot on the lens, so the laser is working. Because I replaced it (15 years ago!) I think it's probably not aligned optically, but I have tried moving the assembly incrementaly in several position (rotation and in and out) and found 'extreme' positions where it no longer detects the disk (no spin).
I then adjusted it to the 'middle' of the extremes. I know its a bit rough but I have no test gear.
So now I need some help to proceed more accuratly. I think with the trial and error approach I risk really screwing up big time.
Some of the other things I have tried:
re-flowed many 'dodgy looking' solder joints. (no appreciable difference)
exchanged the pick-up with one from a broken Meridian - (similar unit, but not the same - spindle different enough that the puck does not fit). Same behaviour anyway.
I'm starting to think the problem is elswhere... but I have no clue on how to proceed with more sophisticated troubleshooting.
So what next?
Thanks
Philippe
Hi,
at the risk of turning this into a blog..
I got the laser aligned . Turned out my hunch was right about something else being wrong with the servo circuit.
How I did it:
first read all other posts. Then ordered the manuals from Ultranalogue. Then found a broken CD202. This was the best break, (after fixing it) it allowed me to swap over components and really narrow the problem spots. (In a way both players helped each other).
This is how I fined tuned the laser alignment, by setting it up on the CD202. When the laser sub assembly was aligned (process as per first post) I 'glued' it in position with some nail polish. (When asked, my wife said 'what colour').
I bought a cheap 'scope, and adjusted the eye pattern to just over one volt ptp. The manual says 1 volt, others on this board consistently say 1.2 to 1.5...?
A note of caution here. The pot on the laser gain works in the opposite direction to what you would think. What I mean is clockwise DE-creases gain, and counterclockwise increases gain. Before I got the scope I thought I would be kind to the new diode and turned the pot down..
without realising that was full bore...
The other pot that needed ajustment was the focus gain. At first it was literally 'ringing' (to tight a loop, I guess) and had to back off almost 1/2 a turn (also opposite to what ypu'd expect). I turned it down untill it stopped being noisy. Then you need to fine tune this with the player attached to an amp, so the 'ringing' can be heard in the speakers, and tweaked down further.
So with the transport sorted out I attacked the servo board. After many frustrating trials, sustituting components (well, as I said, I don't really know what I'm doing 1/2 the time) it turned out to be a shorted 27n cap on the focus op-amp.
Should've suspected something when the reading on the op-amp output were cycling on-off. (short circuit...now I know).
So another CDM0 player lives.
Cheers
Philippe
at the risk of turning this into a blog..
I got the laser aligned
. Turned out my hunch was right about something else being wrong with the servo circuit.How I did it:
first read all other posts. Then ordered the manuals from Ultranalogue. Then found a broken CD202. This was the best break, (after fixing it) it allowed me to swap over components and really narrow the problem spots. (In a way both players helped each other).
This is how I fined tuned the laser alignment, by setting it up on the CD202. When the laser sub assembly was aligned (process as per first post) I 'glued' it in position with some nail polish. (When asked, my wife said 'what colour').
I bought a cheap 'scope, and adjusted the eye pattern to just over one volt ptp. The manual says 1 volt, others on this board consistently say 1.2 to 1.5...?
A note of caution here. The pot on the laser gain works in the opposite direction to what you would think. What I mean is clockwise DE-creases gain, and counterclockwise increases gain. Before I got the scope I thought I would be kind to the new diode and turned the pot down..
without realising that was full bore...
The other pot that needed ajustment was the focus gain. At first it was literally 'ringing' (to tight a loop, I guess) and had to back off almost 1/2 a turn (also opposite to what ypu'd expect). I turned it down untill it stopped being noisy. Then you need to fine tune this with the player attached to an amp, so the 'ringing' can be heard in the speakers, and tweaked down further.
So with the transport sorted out I attacked the servo board. After many frustrating trials, sustituting components (well, as I said, I don't really know what I'm doing 1/2 the time) it turned out to be a shorted 27n cap on the focus op-amp.
Should've suspected something when the reading on the op-amp output were cycling on-off. (short circuit...now I know).
So another CDM0 player lives.
Cheers
Philippe
Need help
Hi Philippe!
I need some help for my Philips 202.
(Sorry for my English.. not to good)
I have this player so 3 days. The problem was: sometimes automatically skipped some seconds. I have cleaned the lens. It was wery dusty.
grrr.
The player presently wont play. The disk spin up, but the track do not begin.
Have Youe any idea, what can i do?
Hi Philippe!
I need some help for my Philips 202.
(Sorry for my English.. not to good)
I have this player so 3 days. The problem was: sometimes automatically skipped some seconds. I have cleaned the lens. It was wery dusty.
grrr.
The player presently wont play. The disk spin up, but the track do not begin.
Have Youe any idea, what can i do?
Hi Mkaroly.
I'd like to help you, but you need to be more acurate with the description of the symptoms
Did you look at my previous post and see where the fault was? There are two postings about a CD 200 and CD202, different faults - one is a capacitor, the other the PLL ic that 'talks' to the Sony board. Yours could be different again. The schema is very useful, with a little reflection. I got mine from ultranalogue (sp?).
In my experience with these machines, the laser is the last thing you should suspect, I guess if they have lasted 20 years, they'l last another twenty - diodes fail straight away or last forever (almost).
Back to the point:
Does it read the TOC?
Is there sound?
Does it respond to comands, eg next track?
God luck, and please come back with more info.
Cheers
Philippe
I'd like to help you, but you need to be more acurate with the description of the symptoms
Did you look at my previous post and see where the fault was? There are two postings about a CD 200 and CD202, different faults - one is a capacitor, the other the PLL ic that 'talks' to the Sony board. Yours could be different again. The schema is very useful, with a little reflection. I got mine from ultranalogue (sp?).
In my experience with these machines, the laser is the last thing you should suspect, I guess if they have lasted 20 years, they'l last another twenty - diodes fail straight away or last forever (almost).
Back to the point:
Does it read the TOC?
Is there sound?
Does it respond to comands, eg next track?
God luck, and please come back with more info.
Cheers
Philippe
Thank You for Your reply!
Here is your symptom:
"Well, the CD202 would play from cold, then after a short time it would speed up (wierd - hey) not so much a rise in pich as just a faster beat. Then the sound would distort - become sort of metallic. I imagined something like a Dalek playing music, if Daleks played music. This was followed shortly by just noise and shut down. Repeated starts only shortened the time before failure, until it would not even read the TOC."
My problem was the same without the "speed up". The sound will disort and skipped some seconds at times ...
Then i cleansed the lens.
The symptoms presently:
-The player turn on. The leds are on, the drawer is ok.
-The disk spin up. In short time the disk get spinning faster and faster. I think its too fast! The lens try to focusing and make some horizontal movement. (I think try to find the begin of the disk.)
-Don't have TOC, for that reason:
-The playing does not begin
-The Time display is off
-Can't skip tracks
But it respond to comands, eg STOP, REPLAY.
I have read your (and other) posts. I try'd to strenghten some solderjoints. I have found a Capacitor, it was not perfect soldered !!!! But the player wont play.
In your post:
"I can see the red dot on the lens, so the laser is working."
I Can't see anything on the lens. Should I see something?
I can't find Website: ultranalogue. Possibe getting the service manual from You with mail? Or suggest You a Website, to download from?
Many Thank for Your help!
Here is your symptom:
"Well, the CD202 would play from cold, then after a short time it would speed up (wierd - hey) not so much a rise in pich as just a faster beat. Then the sound would distort - become sort of metallic. I imagined something like a Dalek playing music, if Daleks played music. This was followed shortly by just noise and shut down. Repeated starts only shortened the time before failure, until it would not even read the TOC."
My problem was the same without the "speed up". The sound will disort and skipped some seconds at times ...
Then i cleansed the lens.
The symptoms presently:
-The player turn on. The leds are on, the drawer is ok.
-The disk spin up. In short time the disk get spinning faster and faster. I think its too fast! The lens try to focusing and make some horizontal movement. (I think try to find the begin of the disk.)
-Don't have TOC, for that reason:
-The playing does not begin
-The Time display is off
-Can't skip tracks
But it respond to comands, eg STOP, REPLAY.
I have read your (and other) posts. I try'd to strenghten some solderjoints. I have found a Capacitor, it was not perfect soldered !!!! But the player wont play.
In your post:
"I can see the red dot on the lens, so the laser is working."
I Can't see anything on the lens. Should I see something?
I can't find Website: ultranalogue. Possibe getting the service manual from You with mail? Or suggest You a Website, to download from?
Many Thank for Your help!
Hi Mkaroly,
with the manual, I bought mine from ultranalogue, and with the 20 or so other manuals it is quite a useful resource. I recommend him.
try http://www.ultranalog.com/ and follow the link to 'sale'
It does sound like the player is loosing control of the turntable motor. If the disk spins too fast, the buffer overflows and it stops.
So I would concentrate on the Phase locked loop IC that was the trouble in mine. HEF4046, its clearly labelled on the top right of the decode board (thats the top most board with the additional Sony piggy-back board). Maybe you're having trouble with the clock on the microprocessor, IC MAB844? . All the electrolitic caps should be considered suspect.
Also look at the turntable control section of the servo board, thats the lower board, the part of the circuit that is in line with the large transistors on a metal heat sink on the edge. Near the centre you will find an IC MC148N with 2 transitors nearby, this is the turntable amplifier. Check the solder around here and change the electro caps. (I think this is less likely to be the problem).
The laser is very hard to see, almost on the edge of the human eye spectrum, but in the dark, you can just see a tiny dot on the surface of the lense - without a disc the player will try 2 times to find the toc. DON'T LOOK STRAIGHT INTO IT, only at an angle.
Anyway, yours plays music, so there is nothing wrong with the laser
You should replace all electrolitic capacitors as a matter of course, you will find the player sounds 'fresher', and more reliable.
To get to the servo bard, its easier to remove the decode board, just undo all the connectors on the decode board and the four screws. (identify the plugs, as at least two are the same - they can be quite firm, so be careful and don't break anything).
See how you go
Cheers
Philippe
with the manual, I bought mine from ultranalogue, and with the 20 or so other manuals it is quite a useful resource. I recommend him.
try http://www.ultranalog.com/ and follow the link to 'sale'
It does sound like the player is loosing control of the turntable motor. If the disk spins too fast, the buffer overflows and it stops.
So I would concentrate on the Phase locked loop IC that was the trouble in mine. HEF4046, its clearly labelled on the top right of the decode board (thats the top most board with the additional Sony piggy-back board). Maybe you're having trouble with the clock on the microprocessor, IC MAB844? . All the electrolitic caps should be considered suspect.
Also look at the turntable control section of the servo board, thats the lower board, the part of the circuit that is in line with the large transistors on a metal heat sink on the edge. Near the centre you will find an IC MC148N with 2 transitors nearby, this is the turntable amplifier. Check the solder around here and change the electro caps. (I think this is less likely to be the problem).
The laser is very hard to see, almost on the edge of the human eye spectrum, but in the dark, you can just see a tiny dot on the surface of the lense - without a disc the player will try 2 times to find the toc. DON'T LOOK STRAIGHT INTO IT, only at an angle.
Anyway, yours plays music, so there is nothing wrong with the laser
You should replace all electrolitic capacitors as a matter of course, you will find the player sounds 'fresher', and more reliable.
To get to the servo bard, its easier to remove the decode board, just undo all the connectors on the decode board and the four screws. (identify the plugs, as at least two are the same - they can be quite firm, so be careful and don't break anything).
See how you go
Cheers
Philippe
Hi Makk,
from your description it sounds like the focus loop is too tight, at least the 'ringing' I heard when adjusting the focus ofset on my laser drive made a sound like you describe, near thew end of one particular CD (a CDR).
Please check with a variety of discs, it may be just one specimen that is out of tolerance.
But before you race out and turn potentiometers, I would offer that electronic units don't go out of adjusment suddenly, so the focus ofset problem is probably the result of some other failed part. I would suggest turning your attention to the focus and radial control (Rafoc) part of the board. This is on the servo board, just look for the series of wires that go to the laser unit and work your way back into the board.
This is all tedious I know, but if you persevere you will find the solution. Just as an indication it took me weeks of looking and trying to get mine working again.
You must replace the electrolitics, they are mostly 22uf and 33uf, quite cheap and this will be in your advantage.
Also which version do you have?
The one with the SOPHI board or the SAA7020 version?
There are other players that use the same boards, for SOPHI, CD200, CD300 and Marantz 73 (early). For the SAA7020, CD303, Marantz 73 (late version). - It does not matter anyway as they are interchangeable, the servo board is the same.
Perhaps you can find one of those at the flea market?
Cheers
Philippe
from your description it sounds like the focus loop is too tight, at least the 'ringing' I heard when adjusting the focus ofset on my laser drive made a sound like you describe, near thew end of one particular CD (a CDR).
Please check with a variety of discs, it may be just one specimen that is out of tolerance.
But before you race out and turn potentiometers, I would offer that electronic units don't go out of adjusment suddenly, so the focus ofset problem is probably the result of some other failed part. I would suggest turning your attention to the focus and radial control (Rafoc) part of the board. This is on the servo board, just look for the series of wires that go to the laser unit and work your way back into the board.
This is all tedious I know, but if you persevere you will find the solution. Just as an indication it took me weeks of looking and trying to get mine working again.
You must replace the electrolitics, they are mostly 22uf and 33uf, quite cheap and this will be in your advantage.
Also which version do you have?
The one with the SOPHI board or the SAA7020 version?
There are other players that use the same boards, for SOPHI, CD200, CD300 and Marantz 73 (early). For the SAA7020, CD303, Marantz 73 (late version). - It does not matter anyway as they are interchangeable, the servo board is the same.
Perhaps you can find one of those at the flea market?
Cheers
Philippe
Yes Makk,
the little blue capacitors are the ones. Most are marked 33 uf, some are 22uf, voltages vary but they are marked also. Just use same voltage or higher, and care about polarity - but you probably know this.
The 22uf are more likely on the decode board, and look slightly different, with both wires comming out of the same end (radial) unlike the ones you pictured (axial).
Include all boards in your renewing of capacitors, including the laser board (there are 3 or four there, from memory). The ribon connector just pulls out of the plugs, do this firmly but gently. Make sure you 'earth' yourself before, so as not to damage the chips with electrostatic charge. (Otherwise everithing is over).
The silver capacitors are less likely to be problematic, and should not be candidates for blanked replacement. Having said that, it was exactly one of those that failed in my CD200
The CD100 is a nice machine but the circuits and boards are slightly different, and I do not know if they are interchangeable. Certainly the laser/drive are exchangeable, but you will need to swap the disc retaining puck (in the lid) to match. It is contemporary so the main principles are the same (SAA7020, TDA1540).
Cheers
and good luck
Philippe
the little blue capacitors are the ones. Most are marked 33 uf, some are 22uf, voltages vary but they are marked also. Just use same voltage or higher, and care about polarity - but you probably know this.
The 22uf are more likely on the decode board, and look slightly different, with both wires comming out of the same end (radial) unlike the ones you pictured (axial).
Include all boards in your renewing of capacitors, including the laser board (there are 3 or four there, from memory). The ribon connector just pulls out of the plugs, do this firmly but gently. Make sure you 'earth' yourself before, so as not to damage the chips with electrostatic charge. (Otherwise everithing is over).
The silver capacitors are less likely to be problematic, and should not be candidates for blanked replacement. Having said that, it was exactly one of those that failed in my CD200
The CD100 is a nice machine but the circuits and boards are slightly different, and I do not know if they are interchangeable. Certainly the laser/drive are exchangeable, but you will need to swap the disc retaining puck (in the lid) to match. It is contemporary so the main principles are the same (SAA7020, TDA1540).
Cheers
and good luck
Philippe
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