mickie said:Help..!
After my last mod i have strong noise on the output of my cd-67 if the volume of the amp is turned up fully and CD-Player is in stop or pause - which wasn't before (dead quiet!)
OK, what i did was the following:
-replaced all diodes (D801..804, DN 01..04, D811..12) with
Schottky and HFA08TB60;
-replaced C801/802, C811/812 with 0,1uF BG NX 50V
-removed C659/660
-removed R657/658 (jumper)
-replaced R659/660 with 100R (caddock)
-removed muting transistors (QN05-08)
I'm a bit in panic now, may i have damaged something..!?!
May this be related to the muting-transistors?
Sound is OK though...
Rest of the Output-stage is still untouched...
yours,
Mickie
mickie, don't panic
thought somone would have replyed by now, they probably busy.
we'll try to help out
need to get home to my schematics first.
"-replaced C801/802, C811/812 with 0,1uF BG NX 50V"
with 0.1uF? what size did you take out?
allan
mickie said:Help..!
After my last mod i have strong noise on the output of my cd-67 if the volume of the amp is turned up fully and CD-Player is in stop or pause - which wasn't before (dead quiet!)
OK, what i did was the following:
-replaced all diodes (D801..804, DN 01..04, D811..12) with
Schottky and HFA08TB60;
-replaced C801/802, C811/812 with 0,1uF BG NX 50V
-removed C659/660
-removed R657/658 (jumper)
-replaced R659/660 with 100R (caddock)
-removed muting transistors (QN05-08)
I'm a bit in panic now, may i have damaged something..!?!
May this be related to the muting-transistors?
Sound is OK though...
Rest of the Output-stage is still untouched...
yours,
Mickie
Hi Mickie
Mine does this when my amp is at full vol. The noise disappears when I turn the vol back to 2-3 pm position.
It is because you have removed the muting transistors - dont worry.
Mine goes alot quieter when in pause mode when compared to stop.
I am going to fit a relay to mine (not taken the lid off for 1 week, and i'm missing it lol).
P.S I have 22mV on the outputs in stop mode and in playmode 4-8 mV (depending on amplitude of the music).
avr300 said:
Hi avr,
1. At first, I replaced the opamp's Cerafines with the Silmic's but it didn't make much difference. A good low-ESR cap with bypassing or a BG sounds much better there. What's silk doing in a cap anyway? Do they expect it to sound "smoother"?? Smells like HDAM: marketing stuff...
2. The Kwak and the Tent clock both bring considerable improvement to the sound. More quiet background, extended highs, more detail. I have both, but it's hard to say which one's better. Neither takes out the magic, they add magic!
The Kwak is the cheapest to build, but more work, and the Tent XO is very simple, but a bit more expensive.
Regards,
Ray.
Re: Analogue supply to the DAC
Hi Ashley,
It's not a reference, more like a DC offset. The outputs of the DAC seem to be at 2.5V, because the duty-cycle of the output is 50% at no signal. That "offset" is divided by the low-pass filter at the outputs and that leaves 1.4V on the opamp's inputs.
Regards,
Ray.
ash_dac said:
Hi Ashley,
It's not a reference, more like a DC offset. The outputs of the DAC seem to be at 2.5V, because the duty-cycle of the output is 50% at no signal. That "offset" is divided by the low-pass filter at the outputs and that leaves 1.4V on the opamp's inputs.
Regards,
Ray.
mickie said:After my last mod i have strong noise on the output of my cd-67 if the volume of the amp is turned up fully and CD-Player is in stop or pause - which wasn't before (dead quiet!)
Hi mickie,
I have that noise too, seems to be normal.
BG Nx to replace those ceramics???
A bit over-the-top, don't you think so?
Regards,
Ray.
adfinni said:
Hi.
The transformer WB01B is small and could easily be fitted to the chassis. The power supply may need careful fixing to prevent shorts to the chassis or other components. The output wires from the transformer only need soldering to the board as it is complete with rectifiers etc. Connect the clock module to the output. The mains wires may need extending and soldering to the existing mains input.
Otherwise , send me an email and we may be able to do a deal with one of my ready made modules?
Andy
6h5c said:
6h5c said:
There is a lot of hype around, isn't there?
If Marantz had got the spec of the '63 right in the first place, they would not have needed the Dham module! But then there would not have been the '43, '53, SE etc.
Silmics and Cerafines are ( like Black Gates) recommended for certain applications and not others. I have doubts about the BG supercap - if it works for BG, why not other makes of NP caps?
Andy
Thanx guys,
....so you have noise too...hmmm...are you shure this doesn't affect the signal / sound quality?
Noise begins at volume turned up to "12 o'clock"
I agree with "over the top" but i thought this is what we are doing anyway
I have some 0,1uF BG's lying around from my old Rega in which i implemented them successfully, noise-level went noticeably down...so why not use them.....
Allright, when modded fully, the player should be quieter at all i hope...
yours,
mickie
....so you have noise too...hmmm...are you shure this doesn't affect the signal / sound quality?
Noise begins at volume turned up to "12 o'clock"
I agree with "over the top" but i thought this is what we are doing anyway
I have some 0,1uF BG's lying around from my old Rega in which i implemented them successfully, noise-level went noticeably down...so why not use them.....
Allright, when modded fully, the player should be quieter at all i hope...
yours,
mickie
Re: Re: Analogue supply to the DAC
Hi Ray,
So internally there is a resistor divider (dividing 5v to 2.5V), and this feeds an opamp to keep the dac's outputs at 2.5v constant?
These outputs are then low pass filtered to 1.4v ?
Doesn't this mean the 5V analogue dac supply must be very low noise, and impedance ?
6h5c said:
Hi Ray,
So internally there is a resistor divider (dividing 5v to 2.5V), and this feeds an opamp to keep the dac's outputs at 2.5v constant?
These outputs are then low pass filtered to 1.4v ?
Doesn't this mean the 5V analogue dac supply must be very low noise, and impedance ?
6h5c said:
Hi avr,
1. At first, I replaced the opamp's Cerafines with the Silmic's but it didn't make much difference. A good low-ESR cap with bypassing or a BG sounds much better there. What's silk doing in a cap anyway? Do they expect it to sound "smoother"?? Smells like HDAM: marketing stuff...
2. The Kwak and the Tent clock both bring considerable improvement to the sound. More quiet background, extended highs, more detail. I have both, but it's hard to say which one's better. Neither takes out the magic, they add magic!
The Kwak is the cheapest to build, but more work, and the Tent XO is very simple, but a bit more expensive.
Regards,
Ray.
and
poynton said:
There IS a lot of hype, and well to many models.
Get a good OPAMP, and the HDAM is a hype. BTW, the LT1361 is sounding great, waiting for my AD8620, hmmm
I'll just stay with the Clerafines until now, doesn't sounds like the Silmics is worth the efford.
I'll start with the Kwak. If it really adds PRaT, then in my opinion it's better.
/avr300
mickie said:I agree with "over the top" but i thought this is what we are doing anyway
I have some 0,1uF BG's lying around from my old Rega in which i implemented them successfully, noise-level went noticeably down...so why not use them.....
yours,
mickie
Hi mickie,
I can imagine your point of view, but you should be careful where you replace a ceramic cap with an electrolytic. The high-frequency properties of electrolytics are a lot worse compared to ceramics. They have much more parasitic induction because of their rolled cilinder construction. A ceramic will perform much better at higher frequencies. Just thought you should know.
Here's an example of a 1u multilayer ceramic (MLCC) vs. a 1u tantalum.
Regards,
Ray.
Attachments
Re: Analogue supply to the DAC
Yes, they are digital
There's a nice 5V square wave on the outputs, but if the duty-cycle is 50% a voltmeter will measure 2.5V.
No analog reference whatsoever...
BUT....the "analog" supply IS as critical as you mention!
Hmmm...reclocking...don't know if that will gain something.
Need another stable clock then. And more stable PSU's.
Regards,
Ray.
ash_dac said:
Opps.....I've been reading this wrong!
These are digital outputs (buffered, and referenced to the internal system clock).
Could we not reclock the outputs ?
Yes, they are digital
There's a nice 5V square wave on the outputs, but if the duty-cycle is 50% a voltmeter will measure 2.5V.
No analog reference whatsoever...
BUT....the "analog" supply IS as critical as you mention!
Hmmm...reclocking...don't know if that will gain something.
Need another stable clock then. And more stable PSU's.
Regards,
Ray.
avr300 said:
Takes the magic out??? IMHO there's no magic till it's got a new clock and new other bits and no hdam.
Just been listening to Harvest (Neil Young) and my word there's so much detail and so much space! Some of the harder busy parts are a lot more focused and I think less glassy now too. I think these improvements were mainly from taking the hdam out actually, I'd just not listened to this album yet. It's like hearing it in hi-fi for the first time... To be honest tho one of the biggest changes is hearing more distortion on it and more noise (from the recording/production). (that doesn't distract me generally tho).
I too, btw, have noise on pause when I turn the volume to full, but I have to put my head near to the speaker (<15") to hear it. Having said that, my pre doesn't have much gain.
Hi,
Well, last night I popped the lid again...
I need to order some parts to upgrade the HF and RF amps and I'm not interested in doing coax until the end. So, having seen Rowemeister had considerably upped the reservoir caps around the DAC and decoder, and that I hadn't as I tend to leave digital supplies unchanged, thought I'd give it a go.
So, upped the DAC caps to 2700uF (think they were 220uF) and the decoder caps to 470uF (couldn't go much higher as my clock is mounted above), and the 470uf after the 12v regs for 2200uF Elna Stargets (the 470uF Silmics were replaced beforehand with some 4000uF Pana FCs).
I wasn't expecting too much improvement as the DAC is fed by three independent regulators anyway, but wow! Really noticeable improvement.
Really going to make the effort with seperate regulation for the decoder, and the rf and HF amps.
Rowemeister, I like silver mica too, but around the HF and RF amps (except for maybe the filters) surely 1% resistors would do? I used 0.1% in my audio filters, because I want both channels to match as closely as possible to improve the soundstage, but surely for these two stages, just lower noise is the priority?
Obviously 0.1% is nice, but not crucial at this point in the circuit? Maybe I've missed a point, my RF knowledge is quite poor.
Anyway, still enjoying modding this player, and I'm sure there is a lot of progress to be made.
Phil.
Well, last night I popped the lid again...
I need to order some parts to upgrade the HF and RF amps and I'm not interested in doing coax until the end. So, having seen Rowemeister had considerably upped the reservoir caps around the DAC and decoder, and that I hadn't as I tend to leave digital supplies unchanged, thought I'd give it a go.
So, upped the DAC caps to 2700uF (think they were 220uF) and the decoder caps to 470uF (couldn't go much higher as my clock is mounted above), and the 470uf after the 12v regs for 2200uF Elna Stargets (the 470uF Silmics were replaced beforehand with some 4000uF Pana FCs).
I wasn't expecting too much improvement as the DAC is fed by three independent regulators anyway, but wow! Really noticeable improvement.
Really going to make the effort with seperate regulation for the decoder, and the rf and HF amps.
Rowemeister, I like silver mica too
, but around the HF and RF amps (except for maybe the filters) surely 1% resistors would do? I used 0.1% in my audio filters, because I want both channels to match as closely as possible to improve the soundstage, but surely for these two stages, just lower noise is the priority?Obviously 0.1% is nice, but not crucial at this point in the circuit? Maybe I've missed a point, my RF knowledge is quite poor.
Anyway, still enjoying modding this player, and I'm sure there is a lot of progress to be made.
Phil.
philpoole said:Hi,
Well, last night I popped the lid again...
I need to order some parts to upgrade the HF and RF amps and I'm not interested in doing coax until the end. So, having seen Rowemeister had considerably upped the reservoir caps around the DAC and decoder, and that I hadn't as I tend to leave digital supplies unchanged, thought I'd give it a go.
So, upped the DAC caps to 2700uF (think they were 220uF) and the decoder caps to 470uF (couldn't go much higher as my clock is mounted above), and the 470uf after the 12v regs for 2200uF Elna Stargets (the 470uF Silmics were replaced beforehand with some 4000uF Pana FCs).
I wasn't expecting too much improvement as the DAC is fed by three independent regulators anyway, but wow! Really noticeable improvement.
Really going to make the effort with seperate regulation for the decoder, and the rf and HF amps.
Rowemeister, I like silver mica too
Obviously 0.1% is nice, but not crucial at this point in the circuit? Maybe I've missed a point, my RF knowledge is quite poor.
Anyway, still enjoying modding this player, and I'm sure there is a lot of progress to be made.
Phil.
Phil
Nice to see others wanting to work around the servo HF and RF.
I used 0.1% tol resistors because I had them in at work and thought why not
Im not sure which parts gave what on the HF RF but I got much better resonance in bass and a nicer more articulate treble. Its probably down to the silver micas.
Using seperate regs there brought more of the same, which was nice.
I havent done one mod that has not improved the player in some way.
What improvements did you get from the latest mod?
Well, I didn't get much chance to listen, but I did notice more clarity in instrument seperation.For instance, not only able to hear new things, but also able to follow them amongst everything else going on.
Listened to a bit of Tom Waits, and just heard things I'd never heard before. Especially loads more detail in the voice, more breathing, etc. After a few mods, you really notice, there's actually a lot going on in a piece of music.
The bass was a lot tighter maybe as well.
Need to hear it a bit more.
Even before this mod (there have been many) Iwas shocked the other week when I dug out an old James album (laid) and listened to 'one of the three'. Not only was I impressed by the drastic improvement (really can hear a lot of the guitar work going on and can follow it as well) but also for the first time, heard a backing singer with a very low bass voice. In 13 years of owning that album I have never heard him before!
Things like Tori Amos sound brilliant as well, but her stuff is often well recorded. And one surprise I had was Paul Weller's Wild Wood - I've always found it a very dull recording, very muffled (even on a bright marantz). But now, it sounds like the producer actually knew what he was doing.
I could go on. Music is suddenly more interesting, more than it is disappointing when you discover a badly produced/mastered CD.
What do people use to listen to their Marantz? I have an old Radford amp and some Mission 751. I'll probably replace that lot one day, but I mainly use my own headphone amp and some Grado SR80s (sleeping young children don't mix well with hifi). I'm really pleased that so far, the headphones and their amp are not the weakest link (yet).
Does anyone feel the need to upgrade the rest of their kit yet?
Listened to a bit of Tom Waits, and just heard things I'd never heard before. Especially loads more detail in the voice, more breathing, etc. After a few mods, you really notice, there's actually a lot going on in a piece of music.
The bass was a lot tighter maybe as well.
Need to hear it a bit more.
Even before this mod (there have been many) Iwas shocked the other week when I dug out an old James album (laid) and listened to 'one of the three'. Not only was I impressed by the drastic improvement (really can hear a lot of the guitar work going on and can follow it as well) but also for the first time, heard a backing singer with a very low bass voice. In 13 years of owning that album I have never heard him before!
Things like Tori Amos sound brilliant as well, but her stuff is often well recorded. And one surprise I had was Paul Weller's Wild Wood - I've always found it a very dull recording, very muffled (even on a bright marantz). But now, it sounds like the producer actually knew what he was doing.
I could go on. Music is suddenly more interesting, more than it is disappointing when you discover a badly produced/mastered CD.
What do people use to listen to their Marantz? I have an old Radford amp and some Mission 751. I'll probably replace that lot one day, but I mainly use my own headphone amp and some Grado SR80s (sleeping young children don't mix well with hifi). I'm really pleased that so far, the headphones and their amp are not the weakest link (yet).
Does anyone feel the need to upgrade the rest of their kit yet?
