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Old 26th January 2007, 12:17 PM   #5481
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That circuit was without any load on it and does not fully represent how your mains will look.

Also he mentions the Zobel type approach. These plugs have L-N caps and also L-E N-E caps with series resistors.

The type of capacitor can have a large affect on the outcome as they do in all situations.

P.S Have you tried any of these Russ Andrews plugs for yourself?
Or have you actually scoped the mains and seen how noisy it is and then implemented different capacitors to see there effect?

Brent
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Old 26th January 2007, 12:36 PM   #5482
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Yup, it's my page. Good point about the load, I use a 700W resistive heater (will update and add a note, thanks).

I should point out that I started by not hearing effects of parallel filters that I liked, rather ones I didn't - so I set out to find reasons why that may be so when the basic idea is so elegant. The investigation is by no means a fait accompli, still at it but no breakthroughs yet. Adding a small series resistor with the cap can damp things nicely, but no great audible benefit either. The noise-peaking effect is demonstrable with a range of 0.1 to 1uF X-rated caps (and beyond, and a few that aren't so rated!).

Y-caps are another kettle of fish altogether, I'm not especially convinced there either for different reasons. Unless they, like an X-cap, are required for EMI control I'd rather go without...
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Old 26th January 2007, 12:57 PM   #5483
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Hi Martin,

I'm afraid I can't join in with the techincal debate but I can offer my listening impressions...something I need to revisit after so much system change since then.

I've tried Russ Andrews' Silencer (a couple of uF in there) and didn't hear much at all, good or bad. I felt it got better but it was the sort of change you can think you're imagining.

I made my own little box with 10uF across live and neutral and some smaller caps, including 'Y' rated caps from N to E and L to E. I also put some VDRs in it. This box made a noticeable change to the sound, providing warmth and a more full-bodied bass. The top end mess/glare was reduced and imaging bloomed. The effect was noticeable enough to rule out imagination.

With respect, Martin, I think you would do well to revisit this until you find out what works and why, for the greater good of the DIY community!!!

Btw I also very much enjoyed the addition of an isolation transformer to run my CD player and associated power supplies from. This also provided a sweeter, more fluid top end and a sense of "quiet".

Simon
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Old 26th January 2007, 12:57 PM   #5484
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Martin

Fair doos and keep on testing, we use X2 caps btw

Brent
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Old 26th January 2007, 01:01 PM   #5485
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Quote:
Originally posted by martin clark
It's not a panacea...
If there is one, it is to reduce the mains impedance. Cabling, sockets, extensions, fuses. It makes a big difference. And it's either good or not noticeable every time. And it doesn't mean spending big money on virgin teflon or "snake oil". Just making solid connections, IMO.

Simon
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Old 26th January 2007, 01:02 PM   #5486
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY


I've tried Russ Andrews' Silencer (a couple of uF in there) and didn't hear much at all, good or bad. I felt it got better but it was the sort of change you can think you're imagining.

I made my own little box with 10uF across live and neutral and some smaller caps, including 'Y' rated caps from N to E and L to E. I also put some VDRs in it. This box made a noticeable change to the sound, providing warmth and a more full-bodied bass. The top end mess/glare was reduced and imaging bloomed. The effect was noticeable enough to rule out imagination.

Simon
The Silencer plug does make small difference (depends on mains to start with) and is also designed to be placed around the house to create 'quiet' areas near offending noisy equipment. Also the more of these you plug in the better (as the uF adds up).

The larger uF plugs do (has you found out for yourself) make quite noticable differences to the audio, more laid back and fluid sound with sweeter treble and better resonance etc

Brent
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Old 26th January 2007, 01:04 PM   #5487
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY


If there is one, it is to reduce the mains impedance. Cabling, sockets, extensions, fuses. It makes a big difference. And it's either good or not noticeable every time. And it doesn't mean spending big money on virgin teflon or "snake oil". Just making solid connections, IMO.

Simon
Dont talk to me about mains wiring LOL 1500 worth later

Brent
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Old 26th January 2007, 01:09 PM   #5488
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Fair points all, I think we're into the realms of personal taste to a degree. I like a lively, explicit/dynamic sound with realistic 'presence*, and don't go for the softer/smoother presentation sought by others. All the filters/conditioners I've heard, and built, move in the latter direction - to me.

No harm in that, it's all fun


*that's not to say I like my treble coarse and forward at all - can't stand that!
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Old 26th January 2007, 02:50 PM   #5489
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Diplomatically said, Martin. I do agree that filters, if they do anything, tend to make the sound softer and smoother. Whether this is good or bad is of course down to taste, material and your system.

Because I got it for free I built my preamp using a fairly large series filter (typical industrial unit). I will be taking this out to compare the sound. Interestingly enough, the one piece of kit I put a quality mains lead on that didn't improve was the preamp (no real change in any area). Perhaps this filter is the (obvious) reason.

It is definately all fun and I'd also like to say nice website (www.acoustica.org.uk)!!! Some great articles there.

Simon
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Old 26th January 2007, 03:02 PM   #5490
Chivvyp is offline Chivvyp  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by rowemeister
No sure how many of you have improved your mains whether it be with a new lead or using such items as Russ Andrews sells.

Well I have stripped down the Mini Purifier (150)

Click the image to open in full size.

What did suprise me was the lower component count and less filtering capabilities it had compared to my own Ultra plug (65). Some over pricing there I think!!!

No Noise Ultra piccy (note:- pic is from development stage, some parts have changed)

Click the image to open in full size.

Brent


Did you use a hand double for the pic? I always pictured my fellow modders with a silvery residue over their hands
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