Marantz CD63 & CD67 mods list - Page 513 - diyAudio
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Old 18th December 2006, 01:05 PM   #5121
Glenn2 is offline Glenn2  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY


Those orange ones are ceramic. They do not belong in the signal path. Replace with silvered mica, polystyrene, teflon or polypropylene. You can expect a big improvement lol

If yours is SE or KI you won't have those in the output filter, they'll be mylar.

Simon

Fully agree, though just to point out that the ceramics were used in the 53/57. The bog-standard 63's that I have/had all had mylars (and also the full complement of Silmics and Cerafines as it happens). Just the flimsy casework and the transformer seemed to be different. (OFC copper in SE and toroid in KI.)

One thing I did notice is that the resistors in my Japanese 63 were yellow (like the Singapore-made 67SE that I use now) but the ones in my Singapore-made 63 (picked up recently as a spare) are blue. Now normally that means metal film does it not? Bound to have some effect on SQ if so....
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Old 18th December 2006, 01:16 PM   #5122
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY


Those orange ones are ceramic. They do not belong in the signal path. Replace with silvered mica, polystyrene, teflon or polypropylene. You can expect a big improvement lol

If yours is SE or KI you won't have those in the output filter, they'll be mylar.

Simon
Hi simon,

Mine is a SE, the orange bob that i see should be mylar, i guess.
Its surrounding the opamps and the ecaps in that area. Should i remove them...
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Old 18th December 2006, 01:25 PM   #5123
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn2
Hi Simon,

Are you pre-regulating at all?
Nope.

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Also, I've heard that the Audiocom super-regs are not unconditionally stable.
Indeed, neither am I

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Do you have any capacitance at their inputs?
Yes, 2200u iirc, Pana FC.

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Also, sometimes we need that few cm of PCB track to dampen the reg's ouput. It's a minefield mate!
Well that's not desirable, I'm trying to keep the impedance down! lol

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Martin will probably correct me (hope so anyway) but I think the input cap on a reg can be as low ESR as you like, and the cap bypassing the load device also can also be, with the caveat that the damping is provided in-between by the PCB track and the cap on the reg's output is not too low ESR to cause ringing or oscillation.
Well the above situation sounds rather like what I have. 2200u at psu > wiring > 2200u > super-reg > 33u + 1u > wiring > local cap (either Ruby ZA 100u or clock board's own psu input).

Quote:

LM317s can do this though I think you have to be quite unlucky, and I think low-dropout (LDO) regs are prone too, as are some super-reg designs (with remote sensing of load ground).

I think the bog-standard 78xx is only likely to oscillate with if your bypass caps are too high ESR (but not sure about that).

Are they all Audiocom jobbies or do you have others?
The two that between them cause a problem are Audiocom.

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Also, could your noises be caused by ground loops?
Nope, I removed the loops.

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I think there should be a simple solution to this....
That would be nice

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Old 18th December 2006, 01:29 PM   #5124
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by marcusdeming


Hi simon,

Mine is a SE, the orange bob that i see should be mylar, i guess.
Its surrounding the opamps and the ecaps in that area. Should i remove them...
I have no first hand experience of upgrading these caps, but this was discussed the other day. I'd say do it, but not as a matter of urgency. Urgent upgrades are damping, feet, reclocking, op-amps, dc blocking cap removal. Then power supplies and caps. Very much my opinion, not necessarily that of others.

To be honest, there are so many mods needed to make this player sound as it should, you just have to trudge through them and do them all. It takes many many mods for it to become detailed and have decent treble. I'm afraid no single mod will fix the bad sound (loose, harsh, muddy bass, rough top end, lack of detail, no control etc.).

Simon
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Old 18th December 2006, 01:40 PM   #5125
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Hi simon,

I was actually thinking of removing them as removing them are fairly fast, esp with the extra trainings with the previous few mod.

In fact i am planning for some caps upgrade in the servo, dac and decoder section as mentioned by you previously. These areas require the luxury caps right..?

If the budgets allow, i am planning to upgrade the output filter section as what the mod list suggested.

Regards,
Marcus
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Old 18th December 2006, 01:49 PM   #5126
Glenn2 is offline Glenn2  United Kingdom
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Simon - what I said about simple solution? Scratch that! What you've descibed sounds good...

Do Audiocom supply application notes? If so do they warn against low-ESR caps hanging off the outputs?

I don't know enough about them to be honest.

One last thing I thought of which is probably only relevent to the 67SE but I'll mention it anyway. When you isolate the DAC digital +5V from the analogue +5V (disregarding clock gate +5V), on the 67 you have to re-route the dig +5v also to some logic inputs that are held high (via resistors) that would otherwise hang from the new +5V analogue supply you added. On the 67 it involved removing two or three jumpers and connecting the input of one to the output of the another, leaving the analogue in-between but isolated. May be similar on the 63 but I really don't remember. Not sure if that made any sense either!
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Old 18th December 2006, 01:51 PM   #5127
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by marcusdeming
Hi simon,

I was actually thinking of removing them as removing them are fairly fast, esp with the extra trainings with the previous few mod.

In fact i am planning for some caps upgrade in the servo, dac and decoder section as mentioned by you previously. These areas require the luxury caps right..?

If the budgets allow, i am planning to upgrade the output filter section as what the mod list suggested.

Regards,
Marcus
Hi Marcus,

Don't remove those small filter caps (the orange blobs) or there'll be no sound. Either upgrade (to a type mentioned earlier) or leave them for now and eventually replace the whole section with Ray's output stage.

Servo, DAC and decoder all require luxury caps to provide the best sound, correct.

Regards,
Simon
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Old 18th December 2006, 02:08 PM   #5128
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY


Hi Marcus,

Don't remove those small filter caps (the orange blobs) or there'll be no sound. Either upgrade (to a type mentioned earlier) or leave them for now and eventually replace the whole section with Ray's output stage.

Servo, DAC and decoder all require luxury caps to provide the best sound, correct.

Regards,
Simon
You mean ray is selling that..? How much does one cost?

and Simon, i see that u have a gainclone ? I am interested in building one too, can point me some directions, thanks....
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Old 18th December 2006, 02:13 PM   #5129
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn2
Simon - what I said about simple solution? Scratch that! What you've descibed sounds good...

Do Audiocom supply application notes? If so do they warn against low-ESR caps hanging off the outputs?

I don't know enough about them to be honest.

One last thing I thought of which is probably only relevent to the 67SE but I'll mention it anyway. When you isolate the DAC digital +5V from the analogue +5V (disregarding clock gate +5V), on the 67 you have to re-route the dig +5v also to some logic inputs that are held high (via resistors) that would otherwise hang from the new +5V analogue supply you added. On the 67 it involved removing two or three jumpers and connecting the input of one to the output of the another, leaving the analogue in-between but isolated. May be similar on the 63 but I really don't remember. Not sure if that made any sense either!
That kinda makes sense... Brent noticed there was a similar problem in the CD63, and luckily for me he fixed mine whilst rebuilding it after I destroyed the servo etc.

Audiocom don't seem to offer any advice on using them. I think they'd rather fit them themselves!
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Old 18th December 2006, 02:16 PM   #5130
6h5c is offline 6h5c  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by marcusdeming
You mean ray is selling that..? How much does one cost?
Everything's for sale, if the price is right... .

Ray
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