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Old 8th November 2006, 01:52 PM   #4601
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Quote:
Originally posted by Malefoda
Well well, I've followed Ray's list, wich uses no BG... I've as Ray's advice Elna RJH around the opamps. The whole PCB upgrade already ask for time & money. But I think I'm going to enjoy fully the next mods, Regs Coax & Clock.
Are the BG the only choice? Did I waste my money exchange the EOM Elna's for Ray's RJH?? (they was Slimic ou Cerafine? Maybe I can use them upgrading my old tuner or even the Arcam amp??).
Whatever my CDP sounds far better with the RJH

About test disc (if you fellows find this is not the place bother with disc I'll stop talking about, please tell me), I've enjoyed Leftism, and even more the fantastic and incredible Orbital LP "In Sides". It sounds new to me! If some of you got it, have an ear on... terrific!
Click the image to open in full size.
The silmics are very nice caps in these areas, BG are better though. The silmics are excellent value if you use them after removing from dc blocking.
If i remember correctly Ray used BG for his opamps on one of his cd players.

Brent
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Old 8th November 2006, 02:27 PM   #4602
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Default Good capcacitors

I think the Elna lineup goes "standard", RJH/For Audio(?), Cerafine, Silmic.

Better than any of these would be Black Gate standard, then exotic Black Gates, such as FK.

In digital decoupling locations perhaps low impedance, high ripple curent caps designed just for the job are best. Sanyo os-con seem to be the kings.

Panasonic FC (replaces HFQ), FA, FM, FK and FJ and Rubycon ZA, ZL are all seemingly "respected" low-impedance types.

I have some Sanyo WX I will remove from my now broken Geforce 4 ti4400 (that's a graphics card if you didn't know!). It also has some os-cons but they're 4v. Also a few inductors. I'm hoping some of it might come in handy!

I ordered, along with my DIN connectors, a few 1uF PPS caps for bypass. What does anyone think about those?

Simon
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Old 8th November 2006, 05:23 PM   #4603
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Hi Rowemeister and Graigtone,
you have both completely missed the point.

I cannot judge whether BGs can do the job better than any other cap or alternative strategy, only those who have taken the time to do the research can offer that opinion.

So, the argument is not about the suitability of BGs.

It is about the statement made by Rowe when you said "The black gates needed are cheap mate". They are among the most expensive electrolytics available.
I say they are expensive.

Now if you were to suggest that BGs were cheap in comparison to the non polar film types then I could only agree.
470uf of film caps would be much more expensive.
That makes me wonder.
How little film capacitance would be needed to match the performance of a Black Gate in that position whether it was a 220uF or 470uF?
Now let's hear the result of that research and then tell me that using electros in lieu of film is not penny (or pound) pinching.
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Old 8th November 2006, 05:43 PM   #4604
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Hi Andrew,

I knew this rebuttal was coming! I saw that you both intended to mean different things. Of course Black Gate caps aren't cheap, but they prove to be good value to those who have tried them.

I think RM meant the caps are cheap in the context of Adam's system, which comprises a 50 "superclock" and several 20 "super regulators".

I would attempt to stuff more film caps into power supplies if only they would physically fit. However, you can't realistically squeeze much capacitance into a small space using a film cap, so a good compromise might be to use them as local decoupling in the 1uF sort of range where price/size/capacitance/ESR/ESL hits a sweet spot.

Agreed?

Simon
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Old 8th November 2006, 05:55 PM   #4605
6h5c is offline 6h5c  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewT
It is about the statement made by Rowe when you said "The black gates needed are cheap mate". They are among the most expensive electrolytics available. I say they are expensive.
Can we please stop this? 'Cheap' and 'expensive' are both relative terms. A teacher should know this...
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Old 8th November 2006, 06:04 PM   #4606
6h5c is offline 6h5c  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by rowemeister
If i remember correctly Ray used BG for his opamps on one of his cd players.

Brent
You are right .

Quote:
Originally posted by Malefoda
Well well, I've followed Ray's list, wich uses no BG... I've as Ray's advice Elna RJH around the opamps.
The RJH have better ESR values compared to Cerafines, so it's not a waste. BG's should do the job even better. But maybe you prefer the sound of Silmics or other caps? With a little experimenting you can find out. In the rather old '63 list there's RJH's around the opamps, in the newer '57 and '67 lists you'll find Silmics and BG's. Feel free to combine different parts of lists .

Regards,

Ray
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:23 PM   #4607
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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I'll shut up, on condition, that folks at least try to be factual or show how they arrive at their conclusion.
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Old 8th November 2006, 07:55 PM   #4608
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Default DC offset: the frighteners!

Hi there!
Ray I feel free to follow your wise lists, and I'm very happy and grateful for your help!

So here I come again with DC offset...
with CDP on stop: 25.7mV on right, 30mV on left.
CDP playing: it dances! From -50 to +80mV... I'm scared! Average around 10/15.
At the headphones: at the normal volume (maybe 3 dots on screen) peaks up to 50! Also average 10/15
At the speakers... less! How it can be?? No sound: stands by 12mV. When CD plays, at "normal" volume peaks to... 70mV!

I've compared with:
Discman Panasonic: at line outlet : 2mv! But in fact very low volume output.
at headphones... starts to 250mV, and slowly goes down when the multimeter is on!
Sansui tuner: 15mV

So the CDP has the bigger DC offset, but I still don't know if all the amp have protection against this, if my next one has not I'll have to go back to caps... at what voltage I may consider my Quad and Grado may be harmed?
Is it normal the DC dances? Maybe the auto scale of the DMM makes the reading cray?

Night is coming soon, and I hope I can sleep tonight! Any idea?

Ah and I've forgotten : Peace & Love!
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Old 8th November 2006, 08:14 PM   #4609
6h5c is offline 6h5c  Netherlands
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Default Re: DC offset: the frighteners!

Quote:
Originally posted by Malefoda
Hi there!
Ray I feel free to follow your wise lists, and I'm very happy and grateful for your help!

So here I come again with DC offset...
with CDP on stop: 25.7mV on right, 30mV on left.
CDP playing: it dances! From -50 to +80mV... I'm scared! Average around 10/15.
At the headphones: at the normal volume (maybe 3 dots on screen) peaks up to 150! Also average 10/15
At the speakers... less! How it can be??
no sound: stands by 12mV. When CD plays, at "normal" volume peaks to... 70mV!
...
So the CDP has the bigger DC offset, but I still don't know if all the amp have protection against this, if my next one has not I'll have to go back to caps... at what voltage I may consider my Quad and Grado may be harmed?

Night is coming soon, and I hope I can sleep tonight! Any idea?
Hi!

The offset of your player is quite normal. I have about the same values. No need to be scared, it is supposed to be dancing when you press play: that's the music signal! You should always measure with no signal, because it's a DC voltage.

I don't think this level can do any harm. Your amp/preamp will not amplify DC voltages, because most feedback-loops are coupled for AC only. So the worst that can happen is you get 30mV on your speaker output. You can measure that easily at the output terminals (speakers connected). If it is less, that's even better. With a DC resistance of, let's say, 3 ohms that would be a total power of 0,3mW! Nothing a speaker can't handle. Of course it's better to have no DC at all, because the speaker is biased a bit, but this is a trade-off: caps in the signal path OR a tiny offset.

Regards,

Ray
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Old 8th November 2006, 08:15 PM   #4610
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hello folks,

I have been intrigued by this thread and have gone through them a bit. So intrigued that I got purchased a cd63se for $25.

There have been so many different mods and levels of mod including revisions, what is the newest set/revisions of the mods?

I was looking at the pdf file on the first page where it says remarks, for example 2200u/35v + 100n x7r, does this mean bypass the cap w/ x7r

tHANKS
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