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Old 2nd August 2006, 01:38 PM   #3651
awpagan is offline awpagan  Australia
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Default Grounding a system can be quite amusing

first you have to look at the whole system that is plugged into each other.
If one component uses a 2 pin plug then it's earth is the neutral pin,
Or, it's earth is via the RCA earth to the next component that uses a 3 pin power cord.


something to think about.

allan
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Old 2nd August 2006, 02:30 PM   #3652
disco is offline disco  Netherlands
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Default Re: Grounding a system can be quite amusing

Quote:
Originally posted by simonty
Hi Jaap,

I didn't hear much difference grounding it. Maybe a tiny improvement. Certainly no loss of sound quality. And no noise problems (but I don't use horns or tube amps so maybe I shouldn't expect noise).

Regards,
Simon
Hi Simon,

You didn't experience the promised gains, did you?
Regards, Jaap

NB The horns do not expose sounds your speakers don't (I sincerely hope so ), they're necessary because of the low output of my homebrew 'mini' amps.

Quote:
Originally posted by awpagan
first you have to look at the whole system that is plugged into each other.
If one component uses a 2 pin plug then it's earth is the neutral pin,
Or, it's earth is via the RCA earth to the next component that uses a 3 pin power cord.

something to think about.

allan
Hi Allan,

The only devices in my house that use mains earth are the washing machine, the dryer, the fridge, the iron and the oven. All audio/video equipment has 2-pin, the (desktop) computer has 3-pin but is connected to 2-pin outlet. It's common practice in Europe, I guess.

So, 'earth' does not exist in my audioset. There's of cause a common low level, connected via RCA's. Maybe I'm lucky my system does not seem to miss proper grounding.

Regards, Jaap
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Old 2nd August 2006, 02:36 PM   #3653
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Default Re: Re: Grounding a system can be quite amusing

Quote:
Originally posted by disco

Hi Simon,

You didn't experience the promised gains, did you?
Regards, Jaap

NB The horns do not expose sounds your speakers don't (I sincerely hope so ), they're necessary because of the low output of my homebrew 'mini' amps.

Nah, I expected more. I hear much bigger improvements cleaning mains plug pins etc.

I thought horns were good at exposing hum and noise because of their sensitivity.

Cheers,
Simon
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Old 2nd August 2006, 02:58 PM   #3654
disco is offline disco  Netherlands
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Default Re: Re: Re: Grounding a system can be quite amusing

Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY
Nah, I expected more. I hear much bigger improvements cleaning mains plug pins etc.
That's exactly my point!
Quote:
I thought horns were good at exposing hum and noise because of their sensitivity.

Cheers,
Simon
This is a wide spread misunderstanding. Good S/N ratio and absence of hummm are to be obtained, even in DIY audio building

It's true however that 50mV hum at the output is a concern on sensitive speakers and not on insensitive speakers.
Jaap
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Old 2nd August 2006, 08:00 PM   #3655
avr300 is offline avr300  Denmark
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Default Re: Re: Re: Grounding a system can be quite amusing

Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY


Nah, I expected more. I hear much bigger improvements cleaning mains plug pins etc.

Cheers,
Simon
Have you measured the quality of your earth? I have a dedicated earth to my audio (2m iron rod driven into the - ehh - the earth!).

I have a mains conditioner on my 63, http://www.blpcomp.com/products/viewprod.php?id=45 in the medical edition, it's in the PDF (the one without the "polluting" Y-caps) http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...=9427147&N=401. It's is sounding a lot better with this filter, rather than my common mode choke previous mounted.

My pre is earthed but my poweramp is floating.

I surely can hear better stability, more solid bass, better image when the gear is earthed.
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Old 2nd August 2006, 09:41 PM   #3656
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg3333



I guess it looks like I need a new laser then. Grandata.co.uk are doing the CDM12.1 for just under 20 delivered so I'll probably order one from them and keep my fingers crossed that it fixes the problem.
As a follow up to this, I ordered a CDM12.1 from Grandata and it was delivered today. I just fitted it and the player seems fine now. Only time will tell if it starts to skip again but I played through a few tracks with no problem. Before the new laser it was skipping on average once every 30 seconds.

Next on the list is to replace the opamps and diodes. Might make a few more changes while I've got the board out but I don't want to do too much at once.

Greg
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Old 3rd August 2006, 04:06 PM   #3657
disco is offline disco  Netherlands
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Grounding a system can be quite amusing

Quote:
Originally posted by avr300
Have you measured the quality of your earth? I have a dedicated earth to my audio (2m iron rod driven into the - ehh - the earth!).
Ah!, you've got a dedicated earth for your audioset. That's something else as the shared 'RF annena' with too high impedance.

Quote:
I have a mains conditioner on my 63, http://www.blpcomp.com/products/viewprod.php?id=45 in the medical edition, it's in the PDF (the one without the "polluting" Y-caps) http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...=9427147&N=401. It is sounding a lot better with this filter, rather than my common mode choke previous mounted.
Why? Has it different impedance?
I guess you have that real earth connected to your CDP. Did you try inserting a (1mH <1 ohm) choke at the end (near the CDP and amp)?
Quote:
My pre is earthed but my poweramp is floating.
What's the Vdc between the CDP and amp when you disconnect the RCAs? Is inserting a wire between cases beneficial?
Quote:
I surely can hear better stability, more solid bass, better image when the gear is earthed.
Might be because you have a real earth connection. Did you wire it with 3mm VDE wire?
Regards, Jaap
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Old 3rd August 2006, 04:16 PM   #3658
disco is offline disco  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg3333
As a follow up to this, I ordered a CDM12.1 from Grandata and it was delivered today. I just fitted it and the player seems fine now. Only time will tell if it starts to skip again but I played through a few tracks with no problem. Before the new laser it was skipping on average once every 30 seconds.

Next on the list is to replace the opamps and diodes. Might make a few more changes while I've got the board out but I don't want to do too much at once.

Greg
Good to hear Greg, a new laser gives you good milage for the future. Wise to take small steps at a time.

The PSU has a large influence on reproduction quality, all prosperes from upgrading. But new opamps without a decent PSU does not bring it all out, I'm afraight. Look for a 15V-0-15V (500mA) to put besides the original tranny.

Handle the ribbon cables with care as they wear out after many removals.
Regards, Jaap
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Old 3rd August 2006, 04:39 PM   #3659
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Disco, thanks for the advice.

Rapid Online have some great deals on transformers right now. How do these look?

Greg
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Old 3rd August 2006, 06:07 PM   #3660
disco is offline disco  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg3333
Disco, thanks for the advice.

Rapid Online have some great deals on transformers right now. How do these look?

Greg
Hi Greg,

I'd opt for these choices:

1x NON ROHS 0-15 0-15V 18VA L/P ENCAP TRAN 77-0376 1.00
2x 0.4A RN112 SUPPRESSION CHOKE 26-4770 1.50
8x 470UF 35V LOW IMPEDANCE ELECTROLY CAP RC 11-2927 0.24
8x SB330 SCHOTKY BARRIER DIODE (RC) 47-2538 0.17

The caps are brandless, maybe you'll replace them once with the expensive stuff.

Regards, Jaap
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