If you keep getting the clicks between tracks and you havnt got a muting relay, then get a mains filter 
lol
Simon, Brent, my pic is to big to post, so ill resize it as soon as i load photoshop, but basically my mega filter was 4 x 240 to 110 trannies, as isolation with two large belling lee RF filters requiring a good earth, a few ferrites also. all mounted on a vibration isolated base, this is big and seriously heavy lol, it sounded good, but the belling lee filters draw that much quescent current that they warm the input trannies, without the trannies a good rf filter will trip an rcd as these do also. I have yet to scope the inputs and outputs using tektronix 465 scope looking for noise and distortion. I need to setup to scope current also, as im positive this will be influenced. Distortion of the sine wave will influence the rectified input to the smoothing caps, to what degree ive never measured. The smoother the supply the less effect sine impurity should have, only real concern is current ?
Dont forget there is a transformer in side the 63 and amps, so a balanced feed will help, id like to try multiple isolation, anyone tried this ?
lolSimon, Brent, my pic is to big to post, so ill resize it as soon as i load photoshop, but basically my mega filter was 4 x 240 to 110 trannies, as isolation with two large belling lee RF filters requiring a good earth, a few ferrites also. all mounted on a vibration isolated base, this is big and seriously heavy lol, it sounded good, but the belling lee filters draw that much quescent current that they warm the input trannies, without the trannies a good rf filter will trip an rcd as these do also. I have yet to scope the inputs and outputs using tektronix 465 scope looking for noise and distortion. I need to setup to scope current also, as im positive this will be influenced. Distortion of the sine wave will influence the rectified input to the smoothing caps, to what degree ive never measured. The smoother the supply the less effect sine impurity should have, only real concern is current ?
Dont forget there is a transformer in side the 63 and amps, so a balanced feed will help, id like to try multiple isolation, anyone tried this ?
Here's a closeup. Apologies if this is too many pictures. I hope such pictures can help and inspire people to get their hands dirty, warm the soldering iron.
Of course this outputs roughly 22vdc... In the player, a further board (each) will provide additional smoothing, regulate the voltage to 12v for Audiocom clock (and 5v for divider circuit - only relevant in the CD63/53), and clean the power with additional filtering. I think I will have one "umbelical" connector for digital power, possibly using a 6-pin DIN and CAT5 network cable, to begin with.
If anyone would like to see additional pics to help them make a psu, just say so and I'll try to help. It's just about easy enough, but made easier by people's help.
Of course this outputs roughly 22vdc... In the player, a further board (each) will provide additional smoothing, regulate the voltage to 12v for Audiocom clock (and 5v for divider circuit - only relevant in the CD63/53), and clean the power with additional filtering. I think I will have one "umbelical" connector for digital power, possibly using a 6-pin DIN and CAT5 network cable, to begin with.
If anyone would like to see additional pics to help them make a psu, just say so and I'll try to help. It's just about easy enough, but made easier by people's help.
Attachments
Greg3333 said:
The best bang/buck is FREE!
My favorite is shorting the fuse resistors on the opamps (and HDAM for 63 owners who've not bypassed it yet). They are R1613,R614,R615, and R616. You can even leave the board in place, cut where the body meets the lead and solder the leads together. To be neat about it, unsolder the resistors and replace with wire.
You will now have dynamics and an extra octave of bass. You will get another 20% more if you change C611-C614 to the largest low ESR electrolytic that fits easily. I used 16v Panasonic FA or FC's that were modest in diameter, but tall. Rubicon low ESR types would do also. Note, I tried Panasonic's latest FM series (through-hole) in a DVD player recently and did not like them as much as the FC types - they were a little harsh sounding.
Larger low ESR/ESL electrolytic caps are better with less resistance than the same cap in a smaller physical size or capacitance. Film caps like metalized polypropelene types of low voltage make excellent bypasses to the electrolytics, however they must be at least 0.1uf, and preferably .47-1uf. That is because values of .1 and less have higher resistance than the good electrolytic and are thus useless. Listen with them in and out and your ears will tell you so. For bypasses on digital power supplies, other types of bypasses are more appropriate like stacked ceramics.
Note, some people replace R613-R615 with chokes or ferite beaded jumpers (like me), but that is not necessary for someone who wants to hear a huge improvement for 10 minutes effort. There are no noisy digital parts on the +/-12v power supplies, just the opamps and HDAMs. Hence, no need for heroic noise blocking efforts. The opamps are starved for power and the priority is getting them some by getting rid of the resistors! After the capacitor changes, you can later go for the last 10% with fancy regulators and a seperate transformer.
FYI, this is my first post. I modified my CD63 10 years ago and stumbled upon this place looking for sound card mods!
SimontY said:
When I did the mods I had access to a Wayne-Kerr digital bridge for measuring ESR and capacitance vs. frequency. I measured many different parts and found many of the "audio grade" capacitors had poor ESR measurements.
That didn't mean they were bad at signal coupling, just power supplies! I tried a variety of MultiCaps. The .1 uf/200v. metalized polypropelene had high ESR, while the 5uf one had the lowest ESR I measured, 0.005 Ohms, better than any tantalum, electrolytic, organic, or anything on hand (up to 200kHz). At the time, double bypasses were popular, but I measured no improvement and didn't hear any either (for analog power rails). Some of the high ESR caps at any value were WonderCaps (TM). Mediocre ESR measuring electrolytics included Starget and Silmic.
Unlike generic electrolytic caps, low ESR caps like the Panasonic FA/FC/FM continue working into high frequencies, and a 1000uf part will have lower ESR at 100 kHz than the 47uf one. In general, small films and electrolytics don't have enough end and lead bonding area to get low impedence. So, in my CD63 I used the biggest Panasonic FA replacements to the original power supply electrolytics.
We must thank computer requirements for giving us low ESR electrolytics for audio at cheap prices. CPUs can draw 10's of amps in microseconds and needed such parts (think 100w cpu at 1.3v, waking up from idle).
My one FM experience was hardly conclusive as I didn't go back and try out or measure various caps, or look for another cause of the harshness.
The most important bypass cap in my CD63 to my ears is at the DAC analog supplies - CD12 and CD13. I used .47uf/50v. metalized polyprop from my junk box. They sounded best and measured the lowest ESR of anything I could stand up and fit there.
One fortunate thing about having done my mods so long ago was being able to get through-hole parts now out of production. I replaced every resistor after the DAC with a Holco H8 except for some 10Ks which I had in Vishay S102 bulk foils. This made a big improvement. I even went back and tried Dale metal films for a pair of the Holco's and they didn't sound nearly as good. Unfortunately, I had to leave them in after butchering a pad. I also tried Caddock foils and didn't like the sound as well either. Most of the caps after the DAC I replaced with polystyrenes.
Thanks to you guys I'm tinkering again and have LM4562s on order to replace my OP249s. Oh, and btw, I used Holco's for the 3 clock/data lines to the DAC instead of coax.
markk02474 said:
These kind of mods also are very interesting for us dutch people
.Welcome to this thread Mark! Nice input on the caps there!
Cool PSU project Simon, do you have it hooked up to the player yet?
Regards,
Ray (back from his holiday in Italy...)
Oh, and about time someone said something about these extravagant long sigs! You bunch of crazy modding people....
Well Mark, thank you for the very interesting and enligtening insights. Fascinating, now I may have to rethink my capacitor/psu approach in the future! Although I didn't really know why I always had a good feeling about larger nF/uF film caps. I have some that may fit the bill too
Did the sun get to you Ray? Hope you had a good time
Simon
6h5c said:Ray (back from his holiday in Italy...)
Oh, and about time someone said something about these extravagant long sigs! You bunch of crazy modding people....
Did the sun get to you Ray? Hope you had a good time
Simon
SimontY said:Did the sun get to you Ray? Hope you had a good time
Simon
Yeah, I had a good time, thanks Simon. I saw Pompei, and had lots of sun too, but it didn't get to me
. Very interesting, the way the people and the traffic flow in a city like Napoli. It's nice and quiet here in Holland...As a matter of fact, the SA8400 service manual was waiting on the doormat when I got home
. Modding as we speak.....Ray
Splendid Ray, that's what I like to hear. Strike while the iron's hot and all that..
I'm currently searching for a good 8-pin DIN plug and socket combination to use with my external psu. There are some lovely screw-down ones made by Lumberg on Farnell (codes 808271 and 1193062)
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/19476.pdf and
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/19473.pdf if you have any comments!
They can take 5A @ 60vac, so they're suitably chunky. I think up to 7 digital power supplies and a shared ground will be in order.
Only accepts up to 6mm cable though, so getting the wire right will be tricky. The pins only take up to 0.34mm2, again, a bit tight.
Why is nobody else doing external psus? Now I see why....!
Simon
I'm currently searching for a good 8-pin DIN plug and socket combination to use with my external psu. There are some lovely screw-down ones made by Lumberg on Farnell (codes 808271 and 1193062)
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/19476.pdf and
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/19473.pdf if you have any comments!
They can take 5A @ 60vac, so they're suitably chunky. I think up to 7 digital power supplies and a shared ground will be in order.
Only accepts up to 6mm cable though, so getting the wire right will be tricky. The pins only take up to 0.34mm2, again, a bit tight.
Why is nobody else doing external psus? Now I see why....!
Simon
Hi Simon,
I use an external PSU, but not for the CD63.
For a dc power connector, I ended up using Neutrik Speakon connectors. They really do the trick. However, mine are only 4 way, so not quite ideal for you, but I do know of 6 way versions, they might do more, I'm not sure.
Those Lundberg connectors do look good don't they?
Cheers,
Phil
I use an external PSU, but not for the CD63.
For a dc power connector, I ended up using Neutrik Speakon connectors. They really do the trick. However, mine are only 4 way, so not quite ideal for you, but I do know of 6 way versions, they might do more, I'm not sure.
Those Lundberg connectors do look good don't they?
Cheers,
Phil
Hi Simon,
I use an external PSU, but not for the CD63.
For a dc power connector, I ended up using Neutrik Speakon connectors. They really do the trick. However, mine are only 4 way, so not quite ideal for you, but I do know of 6 way versions, they might do more, I'm not sure.
Those Lundberg connectors do look good don't they?
Cheers,
Phil
I use an external PSU, but not for the CD63.
For a dc power connector, I ended up using Neutrik Speakon connectors. They really do the trick. However, mine are only 4 way, so not quite ideal for you, but I do know of 6 way versions, they might do more, I'm not sure.
Those Lundberg connectors do look good don't they?
Cheers,
Phil
philpoole said:
Hi Phil,
I do have some Speakons kicking around and they'd be ideal if they were 8-pole, if a little bulky. I think these Lumberg jobs at Farnell are just about ideal. The wire will be tricky as most can only be ordered as reels, or 25m lengths. Code 1190261 is 8-way and the outside is screened. And it just about fits in the DIN connectors.. But it'll set me back about £30.
Simon
edit: code 4749868 at Farnell, priced by the metre, superb! What do you think?
Hi Simon,
Finding cable can be a pain.
These days, I just use cat 5 for nearly everything, and so far so good. For low power DC, its the best, cheap option.
I like the way you're nearly willing to spend £30 on cable that 'just about fits' the DIN connectors! I assume they're just a bit too small (and hopefully not too big and hence require a bit of brute force
to fit).
It is bizarre, but I find myself spending too long on connector and cable choice, compared to more interesting things like other components, grounding schemes, circuit design. Maybe there's too much choice, or a lot of opportunity to save money or something.
My problem at the moment is I'm trying to find a toroid to supply +/-15V. I suspect that its since the postal charges have changed in the UK that transformers are really hard to find on Ebay now.
Cheers,
Phil
Finding cable can be a pain.
These days, I just use cat 5 for nearly everything, and so far so good. For low power DC, its the best, cheap option.
I like the way you're nearly willing to spend £30 on cable that 'just about fits' the DIN connectors! I assume they're just a bit too small (and hopefully not too big and hence require a bit of brute force
to fit).It is bizarre, but I find myself spending too long on connector and cable choice, compared to more interesting things like other components, grounding schemes, circuit design. Maybe there's too much choice, or a lot of opportunity to save money or something.
My problem at the moment is I'm trying to find a toroid to supply +/-15V. I suspect that its since the postal charges have changed in the UK that transformers are really hard to find on Ebay now.
Cheers,
Phil
Very nice. Get it while you can!
If its 8.7mm OD, then I guess it must have bigger cross-sectional area that cat5. 0.34mm^2 per core. Does anyone know how fat cat 5 is?
I think I'd err to shielded cat 5, as its half the price, and you can get solid core, but this stuff is far prettier.
Worth having I think.
Will you use it for anything else? Or just the power supply?
Cheers,
Phil
philpoole said:Hi Simon,
Finding cable can be a pain.
These days, I just use cat 5 for nearly everything, and so far so good. For low power DC, its the best, cheap option.
I like the way you're nearly willing to spend £30 on cable that 'just about fits' the DIN connectors! I assume they're just a bit too small (and hopefully not too big and hence require a bit of brute force
I found some nice looking stuff by the metre now, so it's sorted, unnecessary spend avoided. I have some pretty blue CAT5 at home, but I wanted thicker, stranded wire, and not twisted pairs. CAT5 is great but snaps too easily for this sort of application IMO.
You and me both! There is a lot of choice and it's easier to understand than circuit design!
The tx in my box is a 15vac, but I agree, there aren't usually loads on Ebay. I have a box of 5 toroids all the same (also from Ebay), maybe it's the right sort for you, I'll have a look when I get home.
As this is external I feel toroids are no longer the best choice (no need for low EMF and small size). What is your tx needed for?
Simon