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Old 12th January 2006, 10:54 AM   #191
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I have 16V 470uF blackgates on C510/C511 to the decoder

And a Silmic on the HF 5V (C504)


The two digital supplies are on the same line with one source voltage coming in.
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Old 12th January 2006, 11:00 AM   #192
6h5c is offline 6h5c  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY


Good evening,

Kiwame eh? Sounds fancy

I remember not liking the change in some ways when I replaced lots of the carbon ones in the output stage of the cd63 with cheap 1% 1/4w metal films. I felt the sound lost some charm or something. It's something I've been meaning to investigate.

The only series resistance in my x-overs is a little piece of resistance wire to bring the tweets down a fraction
Hi Simon,

They sound fancy indeed, and they're not too pricy I think. And they do come in 5W, so I first used them in my tube-amp and tried them in the cross-over later on. It had a 2,2R cement wire-wound to bring the tweeter down, but this sounds a lot better. I tried MOX also, but I didn't like them, sounded like an electric saw.

For the filter in the players I used 0,1% Welwyn RC55Y in my CD67, and 0,1% BC MMA0204 smd resistors in my CD57 so far. Both changes made a big improvement, but I still have to do a critical comparison between the two, with the same opamps in there, to see which one I like best.
Changing these to any 0,1% brings a lot of detail to the sound, almost as much change as the removal of the HDAM
But don't forget to do the filter caps also.

Ray.
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Old 12th January 2006, 11:22 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally posted by rowemeister
I have 16V 470uF blackgates on C510/C511 to the decoder

And a Silmic on the HF 5V (C504)

The two digital supplies are on the same line with one source voltage coming in.
Hi rowemeister,

So you have a separate regulator that supplies C510 (analog), and the digital C511 & 513 are connected to a second reg?

When I look at my board, C513 is connected directly to the 5V line, and C509/510 through R511. In the schematic however, C513 is connected to C511/512 and then though R508 to the 5V line. The schematic and board in the manual are different (again...)

Ray.
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Old 12th January 2006, 11:36 AM   #194
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I have seperated rails now yes. I just need to build a reg for the clock voltage i/p of the DAC.

I have just looked @ another KI pcb I have here at work and C513 is connected direct to the 5V rail.

So when I thought I had pin 15 running from my regs I was wrong!!!

I will have to change this

My PM66 KI has loads of errors on the sch.

Nice one marantz!!!!
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Old 12th January 2006, 11:37 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6h5c


Hi Simon,

They sound fancy indeed, and they're not too pricy I think. And they do come in 5W, so I first used them in my tube-amp and tried them in the cross-over later on. It had a 2,2R cement wire-wound to bring the tweeter down, but this sounds a lot better. I tried MOX also, but I didn't like them, sounded like an electric saw.

For the filter in the players I used 0,1% Welwyn RC55Y in my CD67, and 0,1% BC MMA0204 smd resistors in my CD57 so far. Both changes made a big improvement, but I still have to do a critical comparison between the two, with the same opamps in there, to see which one I like best.
Changing these to any 0,1% brings a lot of detail to the sound, almost as much change as the removal of the HDAM
But don't forget to do the filter caps also.

Ray.
Hi Ray

Interesting to hear about those resistors... I did compare white coffins to MOX and found the MOX to be a slight improvement, but I felt they still put plenty of grain (electric saw? ) into the treble. But when I altered my x-overs I found I didn't need much padding at all so all I use is about 15cm of resistance wire, which has no real character to it I find.

I changed the resistors in the 63's output area to better than 1% metal film, and the sound got better and worse. I really can't agree with you when you say "using 0.1% brings a lot of detail", because my experience was more slight than that. Perhaps you used nicer resistors than me. Please don't think I question your judgement - I simply had a less positive experience in my system with 2 pence resistors.

I would say, particularly to anyone considering modding their CD63SE/KI that the following mods made extremely important changes to the sound quality that make it produce great music:

1 - removal of dc blocking caps* (and muting transistors)
2 - add on clock with totally dedicated psu
3 - op-amps to opa627 or other top notch solution
4 - damping chassis (not too much tho!!) and using 3 wooden cones as feet
5 - bypassing hdam

*if your amp can deal with the possible dc, but just do it, come on!

And that's more or less the order they should be done, but it seems obvious to upgrade the psu too. All I have done (other than separate clock psu) is to beef up some caps, install schottky diodes, and replace 'fuse resistors' with ~1R inductors. And obviosuly some X rated mains filter caps, and a CAT5 braided power cable. And it runs off a 500va iso. trafo.

I have not changed my filter caps around the op-amps yet, apart from two, which according to the TNT guide make the treble rolloff earlier. These are silvered mica.
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Old 12th January 2006, 11:42 AM   #196
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I used precision 0.1% tol resistors around my op amps. The detail was much better.
And all the caps are silver mica
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Old 12th January 2006, 11:44 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally posted by rowemeister
I have seperated rails now yes. I just need to build a reg for the clock voltage i/p of the DAC.

I have just looked @ another KI pcb I have here at work and C513 is connected direct to the 5V rail.

So when I thought I had pin 15 running from my regs I was wrong!!!

So if you separate digital and analog this way, it seems works fine. I think i'm going to look into this again and give it a try.
Can you tell me when things are still stable, if you have changed the C513 supply?

Ray.
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Old 12th January 2006, 12:03 PM   #198
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Hi Simon,

That's strange
Maybe you had rusty resistors
You should try again with some different types then, it really is worth it.

And while you're at it, change the filter caps to 1% (silver-mica, MKP or styroflex), especially the ones right after the DAC. This part is supposed to be as symmetric as possible due to the differential outputs.

I know the TNT mod where they change the 120p cap in the analog filter, to get rid of the slight bump in the high region. But this is not the right way to do it!

Take a look at Pedja's page: http://users.verat.net/~pedjarogic/a...ds/cd_mods.htm
The idea is to lower C605/606. I use 560pF now. You can get rid of L601/602 too, they don't use it in the CD67 anymore.

If you want to simulate the filter you can use this handy tool from Analog Devices. In the diagram it will show a nice before and after graph if you fiddle around with the values a bit.

Ray.
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Old 12th January 2006, 12:15 PM   #199
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I have all silver mica after DAC

So what you are saying is ditch the inductors and change the value of the caps to 560pF.
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Old 12th January 2006, 12:27 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally posted by rowemeister
I have all silver mica after DAC

So what you are saying is ditch the inductors and change the value of the caps to 560pF.
Yep. Well, actually it's what Pedja is saying, just passin' the word

You can play around with the value and see how the curve changes. Here's a pic of the 'before' (1nF) and 'after' (560p) amplitude curve as it comes out of the Analog Devices tool.

It's a simple mod, i'm curious what you think of the sound.

Ray.
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File Type: jpg cd67_bessel.jpg (29.0 KB, 1418 views)
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