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Old 31st December 2012, 07:56 AM   #18941
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Default Muting circuit

@Ray and Happy New Year to all. From your web I noticed that you have suggested using a relay for the muting circuit and provided with a circuit diagram. However I found the following finished product in the fleabay:
DPDT Signal Relay Module 12Vdc TAKAMISAWA RY12W-K Relay - UK SELLER - #885 | eBay

For the 12V power supply to the relay I can tap it out from resistor RN08 after DN01 and DN02. As to the muting control signal shall I just feed the signal from the collector of either QN24 or QN25 to the input of the fleabay's relay unit ?
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Old 31st December 2012, 09:24 AM   #18942
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Happy new year!

Good to hear your player is singing again!

That's a handy little PCB

You have to wire it in such way that the normally closed contacts are connected between audio-signal and GND. So that in power-less condition, the relay is inactive and signal is muted. This will take away all the switch on/off noises.

The original muting transistors work in an opposite way as the relay: they are active when the signal needs to be muted and LMUT and RMUT lines are high (+5V). So you need that signal inverted. You can do that by taking QN24 or QN25 out and connect directly to the decoder. The base of QN24/25 is the point where you can connect the input of the muting PCB. You may have to lower RN30/31 to 1k to get it to work.

Regards,

Ray
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Old 31st December 2012, 01:58 PM   #18943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6h5c View Post
Happy new year!

Good to hear your player is singing again!

That's a handy little PCB

You have to wire it in such way that the normally closed contacts are connected between audio-signal and GND. So that in power-less condition, the relay is inactive and signal is muted. This will take away all the switch on/off noises.

The original muting transistors work in an opposite way as the relay: they are active when the signal needs to be muted and LMUT and RMUT lines are high (+5V). So you need that signal inverted. You can do that by taking QN24 or QN25 out and connect directly to the decoder. The base of QN24/25 is the point where you can connect the input of the muting PCB. You may have to lower RN30/31 to 1k to get it to work.

Regards,

Ray
Thanks Ray. If I don't want to touch QN24/25 do you think the muting can work when I connect the audio signal and ground to the Normal Open contacts of the relay?
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Old 31st December 2012, 02:41 PM   #18944
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Originally Posted by higlander View Post
Thanks Ray. If I don't want to touch QN24/25 do you think the muting can work when I connect the audio signal and ground to the Normal Open contacts of the relay?
OH, I don't think connecting the NO contact of the relay will work. When there is no power the audio signal will go through the RCA output directly and not goes to ground. My mistake.

@Ray can you advise if the connection in the uploaded diagram is correct. The control of the relay needs 5V signal but it seems that the signal from the decoder is 0V but the POWM always provide a 4.5V before RN31 which in this case will always activate the muting relay. It seems to me it is not right.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Muting.pdf (184.2 KB, 32 views)
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Old 31st December 2012, 05:02 PM   #18945
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Originally Posted by UV101 View Post
Is that picture your player? If so you have completely bypassed the HDAM and linked the output stage output direct to the output. If the output phonos are still connected to the PCB, you will still have the muting transistors in circuit and by linking those caps out will be feeding the sound into the output of the HDAM??
turns to

Having seen the picture in post 18938 it reminded me somewhat (well exactly actually!) of my modded player

Today I remedied the situation and put some additional phono sockets on the back the panel and re-routed the signal out. Well.....now I know what all the fuss is about. I have done major mods to this player as have most others on here. However I was not that impressed with the sound and still thought it a bit uncouth and "shouty". Not any more. What a transformation. I don't have to give details as you will all already know.

Rob.
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Old 31st December 2012, 05:13 PM   #18946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by higlander View Post
@Ray can you advise if the connection in the uploaded diagram is correct. The control of the relay needs 5V signal but it seems that the signal from the decoder is 0V but the POWM always provide a 4.5V before RN31 which in this case will always activate the muting relay. It seems to me it is not right.
I see what you mean, but your drawing is correct. The decoder will pull down the voltage through the diodes, so it controls the voltage at that point and thereby the muting. POWM provides voltage, but through the 47k resistor. So the moment the decoder starts pulling current through the diode, this voltage drops fast to around 0.6V. You may have to lower RN31 to 1k to get it working properly.

Ray
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Old 31st December 2012, 05:16 PM   #18947
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Originally Posted by Puffin View Post
...What a transformation...

Rob.
That must have been quite a 'Eureka'-moment
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Old 31st December 2012, 05:30 PM   #18948
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Originally Posted by 6h5c View Post
I see what you mean, but your drawing is correct. The decoder will pull down the voltage through the diodes, so it controls the voltage at that point and thereby the muting. POWM provides voltage, but through the 47k resistor. So the moment the decoder starts pulling current through the diode, this voltage drops fast to around 0.6V. You may have to lower RN31 to 1k to get it working properly.

Ray
Thanks Ray for confirming that my drawing is correct and I will based on this to insert a muting circuit in my 63SE which I am working on now. Now I understand how the muting circuit works and thanks again for your advise.
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Old 31st December 2012, 05:34 PM   #18949
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Originally Posted by 6h5c View Post
That must have been quite a 'Eureka'-moment
Ohhh Yess. A Happy New Year to Meeeeee.
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Old 1st January 2013, 04:19 AM   #18950
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Happy New Year, guys!
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