TOSLink Cables All the same? Any degradation over Length? - Page 5 - diyAudio
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Old 19th September 2002, 09:08 AM   #41
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The quote was from Jocko Homo, not from you!!
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Old 19th September 2002, 03:01 PM   #42
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Default Put your money where your mouth is.....

OK, enough of this crap. I knew someone would fall Canare's line of BS. (What is that Swedish word again......?)

Here's what anyone who believes that can do:

Send me $500. Give me a date, time, and location to be at. (Only applies to USA for obvious reasons.) And a phone number in case the directions are too confusing.

I'll show up with my TDR, some 50, ohm BNCs, 75 ohm BNCs, a handful of coax cables and some adaptors. You bring your "75 ohm RCAs". If you are lucky, I will bring one of my old D/A boxes.

After I prove you wrong, and if there is any gas money left, I'll take you out for pizza.


Any takers............?

NO, didn't think so......

Jocko
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Old 20th September 2002, 06:45 AM   #43
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Hi Jocko,

Sorry, but I live in the Netherlands. Would be quite expensive to fly to the US just to check if the Canare's are 75 ohm or not. I don't use them anyway... Simple 75 ohm antenna cable + gold plated RCA terminators work just fine, thank you...
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Old 20th September 2002, 01:47 PM   #44
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sikkek:

You are excused. But the laws of physics do not lie, unlike most marketing weenies.

If they work fine for you, and if fine is an acceptable level of performance, then that is fine. Problem is that RCAs have too much capacitance to be anywhere near 75 ohms, no matter who says otherwise. And if you are using them on a 75 ohms line, you will have significant reflections.

In any transmission line- optical, coax, twisted pair, reflections are produced at any and all interface/transistion points. Reflections amount to a form of distortion, that in the case of SPDIF, that will affect the decision point in the RX chip, and create jitter.

So, how much jitter is too much? In the case of SPDIF, almost any is. The problem arises because the clock has to be recovered (with a PLL!.....yuk, more jitter......) from a serial data stream. The pulse distortion that is caused by reflections.....bouncing back and forth......exacerbates this problem.

(The effect of reflections can be heard.......and your $500 contribution will also include a demonstration of this.)

Anyway, back to what started this thread.......it is very likely that going to a LONGER fiber optic cable can actually be BETTER. There are several reasons. In the case of fiber, there are some unique problems that arise in the transmit end that don't exist in the copper world. But the solution for it, as well as for all the other reflection problems, can be fixed using the same techniques.

And that brings us back to the jet fighter analogy........

Jocko
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Old 20th September 2002, 02:00 PM   #45
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Thumbs down SPDIF

"Most SPDIF signals are generated with some kind of transmitter. I'm sure we all can agree about that. This generator is probely like CS8404/04/05 which has jitter in the ns area."

I have NEVER seen a Crystal CS8404/04/05 in a CD player or transport. Too expensive. The jitter from that device is much lower
than the ":nS area", as are most SPDIF drivers. Pehaps you could stick to posting coments about something with which you have some (even a little) knowledge.

Thank you,

H.H.

P.S. I used to design SPDIF AES/EBU interface devices and digital cables.
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Old 20th September 2002, 02:02 PM   #46
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Jocko:

Do you mean the following?

A longer transmission line means a lower output at the end, due to losses in the cable, thus less reflected waves, these have to travel back to the transmitter (again more loss) and be 'bounced' back again to the receiver (also with more loss). With longer lines the signal/reflection ratio will be better...
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Old 20th September 2002, 02:26 PM   #47
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Something like that.........

That is the main reason. There is one more that is not so obscure.

Today's clue:

The worst cable I ever heard was less than 1 foot (1/3 meter for all you Europeans......).

All of my cables are 20 feet long (that is about 6 meters in EuroSpeak......)

Jocko
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Old 20th September 2002, 02:45 PM   #48
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Only for Europeans...?

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Old 20th September 2002, 03:25 PM   #49
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Default Only for Europeans...?

No.......some of them just like to tweak me. Just returning the favor.

Jocko
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Old 20th September 2002, 07:47 PM   #50
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Thumbs up Interface

Hi Jocko,
My double shielded coax cable is one meter long i.e. 3 feet in USA measures.
But the nice thing about my interface is that it sounds the same with 13 meters of cheap coax. Thanks to you and Harry H.
Digital transformer
Replace the 74HCU04 by (MC)74VHC04 and you won't believe your ears.
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