I have to share with you an odd experience.
My system consists of tube equipment: Copland Ct 301 MKII pre and Copland CTA 501 triode power amp,
Dunlavy Aletha (Athena) speakers, Sony XB 940 SACD.
The problem is that the overall sound from my system seemed to be too bright with lacking bass and resulting in a rather high level of listening fatigue.
I have been exploring what kind of mods I could do on my SACD player.
LC audio seems to have the answer, but now I´m concerned that the result of a 200-400 euro investment on the old player might get even more on the bright side and further increase the listening fatigue. And what about the lacking bass? Would these mods help on that issue at all?
Now here comes the odd thing;
I connected my old Marantz CD 75 MKII player and voila!!
The bass was just right, tight and firm and I found myself tapping my feet from the first few notes that came out of the speakers !!
Listening fatigue?? Gone with the wind !! Instead of turning gradually the level down I was turning the level up as I kept listening to my CD:s.
I still have my record player and some 300 records and this experience with the old Marantz was very close to listening to vinyl.
I think this Marantz is using only 16 bit technology, but I remember it was advertised at that time to have been developed strongly leaning on listening.
Anybody out there got the same experience??
Regards Peter
My system consists of tube equipment: Copland Ct 301 MKII pre and Copland CTA 501 triode power amp,
Dunlavy Aletha (Athena) speakers, Sony XB 940 SACD.
The problem is that the overall sound from my system seemed to be too bright with lacking bass and resulting in a rather high level of listening fatigue.
I have been exploring what kind of mods I could do on my SACD player.
LC audio seems to have the answer, but now I´m concerned that the result of a 200-400 euro investment on the old player might get even more on the bright side and further increase the listening fatigue. And what about the lacking bass? Would these mods help on that issue at all?
Now here comes the odd thing;
I connected my old Marantz CD 75 MKII player and voila!!
The bass was just right, tight and firm and I found myself tapping my feet from the first few notes that came out of the speakers !!
Listening fatigue?? Gone with the wind !! Instead of turning gradually the level down I was turning the level up as I kept listening to my CD:s.
I still have my record player and some 300 records and this experience with the old Marantz was very close to listening to vinyl.
I think this Marantz is using only 16 bit technology, but I remember it was advertised at that time to have been developed strongly leaning on listening.
Anybody out there got the same experience??
Regards Peter
Could this be the explanation why I prefer the sound of my old Marantz over Sony XB 940
Read the design philosophy of the Audionote DAC at
http://www.audionote.co.uk/
Regards Peter
Read the design philosophy of the Audionote DAC at
http://www.audionote.co.uk/
Regards Peter
Somehow I think you are not that seriously interested looking at the tone of your post.
Anyway, the 940 is not really interesting ( not playing CDR is a serious handicap ). It can be after pumping much money in upgrades as clocks, Allen Wright boards etc, too much money in relation to the players quality if you ask me. I prefer the oldies as mentioned for cd playback. Cheaper and more natural. But I have to add I do not want to invest in SACD too.
If I were Peter I would invest some money on improving the CD 75.
Anyway, the 940 is not really interesting ( not playing CDR is a serious handicap ). It can be after pumping much money in upgrades as clocks, Allen Wright boards etc, too much money in relation to the players quality if you ask me. I prefer the oldies as mentioned for cd playback. Cheaper and more natural. But I have to add I do not want to invest in SACD too.
If I were Peter I would invest some money on improving the CD 75.
"Somehow I think you are not that seriously interested looking at the tone of your post."
Que? I added that I was seriously interested because I am seriously interested.. I don´t know where my tone was off to you. I added that part so you would not misunderstand anything but still you need to have an attitude yourself? I did incorporate a smily to make sure the message was a light one... guess I need to go practice English and/or my social skills.
"Anyway, the 940 is not really interesting"
Of course it is, it´s cheap and it´s a hell of a machine. I can understand if it´s not interesting to you, but IMO it´s wrong to say it´s not interesting in absolute terms since it´s so good and have such potential. I modded both the CD63 and 940 with LClock XO2 with dedicated PS and Zapfilter2 with dedicated PS and both became totally new beasts with the Sony better of the two. The SACD is a nice bonus IMO.
"( not playing CDR is a serious handicap )."
A personal preference that I can understand but it´s no big deal to me since hardly no one i know buy CD´s I like and would want to copy.
"It can be after pumping much money in upgrades as clocks, Allen Wright boards etc, too much money in relation to the players quality if you ask me."
But how can you say that.. did you do the full clock mod and new analog board and know what that would actually bring? Or do you assume the player to be "bad" based on your mods? (which you never answered what it was in the first place)
The LClock XO3 and Zapfilter cost about 380€ and IMO that is not much for an upgrade kit that turns a budget player into a top notch one. Think it was D.Robinsson who tested a VSE modded Sony and felt it was the first player he heard that was up there with the Meitner... for what it´s worth.
I also have multibit DAC, a good one I´d say with BB1702K, PMD100, AD811/BUF634 beefy PS and all but the Sony is better.
/Peter
Que? I added that I was seriously interested because I am seriously interested.. I don´t know where my tone was off to you. I added that part so you would not misunderstand anything but still you need to have an attitude yourself? I did incorporate a smily to make sure the message was a light one... guess I need to go practice English and/or my social skills.
"Anyway, the 940 is not really interesting"
Of course it is, it´s cheap and it´s a hell of a machine. I can understand if it´s not interesting to you, but IMO it´s wrong to say it´s not interesting in absolute terms since it´s so good and have such potential. I modded both the CD63 and 940 with LClock XO2 with dedicated PS and Zapfilter2 with dedicated PS and both became totally new beasts with the Sony better of the two. The SACD is a nice bonus IMO.
"( not playing CDR is a serious handicap )."
A personal preference that I can understand but it´s no big deal to me since hardly no one i know buy CD´s I like and would want to copy.
"It can be after pumping much money in upgrades as clocks, Allen Wright boards etc, too much money in relation to the players quality if you ask me."
But how can you say that.. did you do the full clock mod and new analog board and know what that would actually bring? Or do you assume the player to be "bad" based on your mods? (which you never answered what it was in the first place)
The LClock XO3 and Zapfilter cost about 380€ and IMO that is not much for an upgrade kit that turns a budget player into a top notch one. Think it was D.Robinsson who tested a VSE modded Sony and felt it was the first player he heard that was up there with the Meitner... for what it´s worth.
I also have multibit DAC, a good one I´d say with BB1702K, PMD100, AD811/BUF634 beefy PS and all but the Sony is better.
/Peter
If you feel spending 380 € is "not much for an upgrade kit that turns a budget player into a top notch one" we simply have other levels of what we refer to as "not much". I meant "not interesting" in the sense of an original new 940 ( that costs 200 € here ) and the relationship with the 380 €.
One can buy about 10 old Marantz cdplayers for that money that all sound very well on standard 16 bit material......
Anyway, it's nice to see you like your 940. I do not feel the urge to react to your assumptions on my possible assumptions nor to elaborate on the mods I did on the thing. Just be happy.
BTW if you click on the Quote box and then Post Reply it is easier to quote the post you want to react to. You can edit the line if you wish too to make things more to the point.
One can buy about 10 old Marantz cdplayers for that money that all sound very well on standard 16 bit material......
Anyway, it's nice to see you like your 940. I do not feel the urge to react to your assumptions on my possible assumptions nor to elaborate on the mods I did on the thing. Just be happy.
BTW if you click on the Quote box and then Post Reply it is easier to quote the post you want to react to. You can edit the line if you wish too to make things more to the point.
Some more assumptioms from the guy with the tone.
Sounds like you feel that the upgrade kit must be cheaper than the product itself to make sense... you don´t need to answer (not that I really think you will, you don´t seem to be interested in discussion)
"One can buy about 10 old Marantz cdplayers for that money that all sound very well on standard 16 bit material......"
What the heck are you gonna do with ten players? Seems like we have different standards as to "sound very well".
"Just be happy."
Oh, I will, try you too.
"BTW if you click on the Quote box and then Post Reply it is easier to quote the post you want to react to. You can edit the line if you wish too to make things more to the point."
Thanks for the advice.
I´m still curious what mods you did to your 940´s but since you didn´t answer that question the second time I figure you won´t this time either.... I assume it´s becasue.... hrrm!
Good night!
/Peter
Sounds like you feel that the upgrade kit must be cheaper than the product itself to make sense... you don´t need to answer (not that I really think you will, you don´t seem to be interested in discussion)
"One can buy about 10 old Marantz cdplayers for that money that all sound very well on standard 16 bit material......"
What the heck are you gonna do with ten players?
Seems like we have different standards as to "sound very well"."Just be happy."
Oh, I will, try you too.
"BTW if you click on the Quote box and then Post Reply it is easier to quote the post you want to react to. You can edit the line if you wish too to make things more to the point."
Thanks for the advice.
I´m still curious what mods you did to your 940´s but since you didn´t answer that question the second time I figure you won´t this time either.... I assume it´s becasue.... hrrm!
Good night!
/Peter
Pan said:
I know the SCD-XA333ES inside and out, upside and down.
The potential for upgrade and the final results, whatever you do, are much better with some old Philips/Marantz cdps than any Sony.
Also, I see much more stupidity inside Sony gear than Philips/Marantz.
Take this as an advice, and I'm not saying they can't be modded to sound good, they can.
But there's just another league they will never reach.
Ok, so you have not listened to a 940, SCD-1 or 777 with full mods?
I don´t think the XA333 can be compared to those mentioned above since they use another approach and digital filter that seems to be better according to Allen Wright who know these player better than most.
I say once again, don´t judge this player until you have heard it with a full modification.
I do not have stock in Sony Corporation but always find it hard to understand when poeple judge someting without having tried it (within reason).
/Peter
I don´t think the XA333 can be compared to those mentioned above since they use another approach and digital filter that seems to be better according to Allen Wright who know these player better than most.
I say once again, don´t judge this player until you have heard it with a full modification.
I do not have stock in Sony Corporation but always find it hard to understand when poeple judge someting without having tried it (within reason).
/Peter
Pan said:
So you haven't heard a good multi-bit player.
With or without my (not Allen Wright) mods.
So... we won't get anywhere, do you agree?
I can only say that both the 333ES and the SCD-1 (which I've heard too) sound horrible with CDs, in original form.
One thing is for sure: most Sony clients have money and are willing to pay very well to salvage their players.
My system consists of tube equipment: Copland Ct 301 MKII pre and Copland CTA 501 triode power amp,
Dunlavy Aletha (Athena) speakers, Sony XB 940 SACD.
The problem is that the overall sound from my system seemed to be too bright with lacking bass and resulting in a rather high level of listening fatigue.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Peter
One of the reasons not yet pointed out is that the SCD940 has a design fault and this was why it was so cheap so quickly. The number of mini isolation chokes used in this box to try to stop hf oscillations in the PS and signal rails is incredible! They didn't suceed and so the 940 has a poor unweighted S/N ratio that affects its sonic character.
Go to audio asylum and do a search for some of the cures I posted.
In any case it was impossible to affect a complete cure as the hf noise was everywhere! The most significant mod was to isolate and rationalise the grounds but this was difficult in the design.
Good luck.
Dunlavy Aletha (Athena) speakers, Sony XB 940 SACD.
The problem is that the overall sound from my system seemed to be too bright with lacking bass and resulting in a rather high level of listening fatigue.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Peter
One of the reasons not yet pointed out is that the SCD940 has a design fault and this was why it was so cheap so quickly. The number of mini isolation chokes used in this box to try to stop hf oscillations in the PS and signal rails is incredible! They didn't suceed and so the 940 has a poor unweighted S/N ratio that affects its sonic character.
Go to audio asylum and do a search for some of the cures I posted.
In any case it was impossible to affect a complete cure as the hf noise was everywhere! The most significant mod was to isolate and rationalise the grounds but this was difficult in the design.
Good luck.
Peter,
I know the Sony DVP-9000ES with VSE modifications.
For red book, easiliy on par with my multibit, non-os, synchronously reclocked and global feedbackless folded cascode transconductance output stage
SACD on this player, yep, a clear step forward.
The 940 has the same VC24+ chipset I think and you apply the Zapfilter like the VSE board as I recall.
Even though it's a budget player, I guess you get at least 80% performance of the modded Sony DVP-9000ES; pretty good performance in my book.
I know the Sony DVP-9000ES with VSE modifications.
For red book, easiliy on par with my multibit, non-os, synchronously reclocked and global feedbackless folded cascode transconductance output stage
SACD on this player, yep, a clear step forward.
The 940 has the same VC24+ chipset I think and you apply the Zapfilter like the VSE board as I recall.
Even though it's a budget player, I guess you get at least 80% performance of the modded Sony DVP-9000ES; pretty good performance in my book.
Carlos,
"So you haven't heard a good multi-bit player."
Yes Indeed I have. Why do you assume I have not?
"So... we won't get anywhere, do you agree?"
Absoloutely.. if you are going to continue to say a player is bad when you have not heard it in its best.
"I can only say that both the 333ES and the SCD-1 (which I've heard too) sound horrible with CDs, in original form."
I don´t doubt that for a second. I bought my 940 unheard because I had decidd to upgrade it even before I bought it. Of course I tried it before but indeed it was unlistenable in stock mode, I really mean that. However after the full upgrades things changed and are one of those things that you must hear to believe of course.... but ok, 940 is crap and the top notch sound it produces is just in my imagination...
"One thing is for sure: most Sony clients have money and are willing to pay very well to salvage their players."
Don´t know where you got that from. Sony is the choice for people with low income in Scandinavia at least.
Happy listening!
/Peter
"So you haven't heard a good multi-bit player."
Yes Indeed I have. Why do you assume I have not?
"So... we won't get anywhere, do you agree?"
Absoloutely.. if you are going to continue to say a player is bad when you have not heard it in its best.
"I can only say that both the 333ES and the SCD-1 (which I've heard too) sound horrible with CDs, in original form."
I don´t doubt that for a second. I bought my 940 unheard because I had decidd to upgrade it even before I bought it. Of course I tried it before but indeed it was unlistenable in stock mode, I really mean that. However after the full upgrades things changed and are one of those things that you must hear to believe of course.... but ok, 940 is crap and the top notch sound it produces is just in my imagination...
"One thing is for sure: most Sony clients have money and are willing to pay very well to salvage their players."
Don´t know where you got that from. Sony is the choice for people with low income in Scandinavia at least.
Happy listening!
/Peter
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