Blackgate caps out of production, so...

jholtz · 6th January 2005, 03:50 AM

What are alternatives that offer the same sound quality and low noise? I've been looking at Muse and Panasonic FM series caps. Are they comparable?

Also, Theta products use a green and silver cap. Anyone know what brand they are?

Thanks for the responses!

Jim

jwb · 6th January 2005, 07:25 AM

Hey I have a question. In what way is a Blackgate capacitor "low noise"?

jholtz · 6th January 2005, 11:12 AM

to be the "quietest" caps avalable with upto a -160 db noise floor in some models. Don't you believe marketing? :-)

The few times I've used them in preamps in the past, the background did seem to be quieter than with standard caps. What is your experience?

Jim

Quote:

Originally posted by jwb
Hey I have a question. In what way is a Blackgate capacitor "low noise"?

pburke · 6th January 2005, 05:39 PM

"out of production" - I heard that over 2 years ago for the first time, but so far I haven't seen any supply issues on any version of their caps, nor any price increases (can't really go any higher

)

Why use them - they sound better than anything else in that form factor. If I can I use Auricaps, but they cost even more and are huge, especially when you need more than a few uF

Nichicon Muse are fine in many applications but when you're building a high grade component, the few extra bucks for a blackgate in a key location isn't going to make much of a difference. It gets expensive with high voltage power supply caps, though, while in a DAC, it's a few dollars. I generally spend far more on face plates and switches than blackgates.

Peter

PatPet · 6th January 2005, 06:09 PM

I believe if you like how they sound you wouldn't hesitate to use them. In digital circuits BG caps are certainly less noisier than other lytic caps available, and its size is its advantage over MKP/foil caps.

I'll look for Rubycon MBZ/MCZ or OSCON but I believe OSCON is a bit noisier than Rubycon, in my opinion.

jwb · 6th January 2005, 06:15 PM

What noise are we talking about? Are you saying that the capacitor has less self-generated noise when used as a filter in DC applications, or that it filters HF better than other capacitors (and if so, why? lower ESR? magic electrolyte?)

jean-paul · 7th January 2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jwb
What noise are we talking about? Are you saying that the capacitor has less self-generated noise....

magic electrolyte?)

That's what Jelmax is claiming. It is carbon BTW.

jwb · 7th January 2005, 06:06 PM

Isn't it possible that Rubycon is stopping production on the Blackgate capacitors simply because the patents have expired? The patents date from 1978. Perhaps Rubycon, with its production expertise, plans to roll this technology into their own line of products.

jholtz · 7th January 2005, 07:18 PM

Is this insider information or just a guess? It's the sound quality I'm after, not the name so whether it's Blackgate, Ninchion, Panasonic or whoever, I don't care as long as they sound really, really good and are extremely quiet for that backer than black background thing. :-)

Jim

Quote:

Originally posted by jwb
Isn't it possible that Rubycon is stopping production on the Blackgate capacitors simply because the patents have expired? The patents date from 1978. Perhaps Rubycon, with its production expertise, plans to roll this technology into their own line of products.

Variac · 7th January 2005, 07:27 PM

at 25% of current cost!
Good, and optimistic, theory. I gues we will find out!

6th January 2005, 03:50 AM	#1
jholtz diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Midwest	Blackgate caps out of production, so... What are alternatives that offer the same sound quality and low noise? I've been looking at Muse and Panasonic FM series caps. Are they comparable? Also, Theta products use a green and silver cap. Anyone know what brand they are? Thanks for the responses! Jim

7th January 2005, 07:27 PM	#10
Variac diyAudio Editor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco, USA	at 25% of current cost! Good, and optimistic, theory. I gues we will find out! __________________ Burning Amp Festival Sunday, October 28th, 2012 in S.F. We need Volunteers & sign-up's for what you're bringing!

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6th January 2005, 07:25 AM	#2
jwb diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, USA	Hey I have a question. In what way is a Blackgate capacitor "low noise"?

6th January 2005, 05:39 PM	#4
pburke diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison Wisconsin	"out of production" - I heard that over 2 years ago for the first time, but so far I haven't seen any supply issues on any version of their caps, nor any price increases (can't really go any higher ) Why use them - they sound better than anything else in that form factor. If I can I use Auricaps, but they cost even more and are huge, especially when you need more than a few uF Nichicon Muse are fine in many applications but when you're building a high grade component, the few extra bucks for a blackgate in a key location isn't going to make much of a difference. It gets expensive with high voltage power supply caps, though, while in a DAC, it's a few dollars. I generally spend far more on face plates and switches than blackgates. Peter

6th January 2005, 06:09 PM	#5
PatPet diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: HKSAR	I believe if you like how they sound you wouldn't hesitate to use them. In digital circuits BG caps are certainly less noisier than other lytic caps available, and its size is its advantage over MKP/foil caps. I'll look for Rubycon MBZ/MCZ or OSCON but I believe OSCON is a bit noisier than Rubycon, in my opinion.

6th January 2005, 06:15 PM	#6
jwb diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, USA	What noise are we talking about? Are you saying that the capacitor has less self-generated noise when used as a filter in DC applications, or that it filters HF better than other capacitors (and if so, why? lower ESR? magic electrolyte?)

7th January 2005, 06:06 PM	#8
jwb diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, USA	Isn't it possible that Rubycon is stopping production on the Blackgate capacitors simply because the patents have expired? The patents date from 1978. Perhaps Rubycon, with its production expertise, plans to roll this technology into their own line of products.

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