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Old 5th November 2004, 09:45 AM   #1
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Question Why NON-OS?

Why so many guys select Non-OS here, is Non-OS superior than OS or only simple to DIY? Could anybody give me the advantage of Non-OS?

How we resolve the LPF problem in NOS mode, which is the most difficult issue and then lead to the oversampling technique in the now CD players.
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Old 5th November 2004, 12:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why NON-OS?

Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by visualwang
Why so many guys select Non-OS here
Because it sounds better?

Quote:
Originally posted by visualwang
is Non-OS superior than OS or only simple to DIY?
That is a good question. Many experienced listeners I know tend to prefer Non-Oversampling DAC's sound, others prefer oversampling. It is a little like solid steta vs. valves, a matter of taste. If your taste is towards a realistic reproduction of music (as opposed to a atificial one) Non-Os tends to be inherently sperior.

Quote:
Originally posted by visualwang
Could anybody give me the advantage of Non-OS?
Better sound?

Quote:
Originally posted by visualwang
How we resolve the LPF problem in NOS mode, which is the most difficult issue and then lead to the oversampling technique in the now CD players.
Well, it depends on your view. You may accept that your speakers and your ear together form a rather efficient lowpass filter and that only minimal filtering of the digital signal is required to produce GOOD SOUND. If you do you accept that the measurements of the DAC will be poor in the traditional sense and you accept that the traditional measurements have no bearing whatsoever as measure of sound quality.

Sayonara
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Old 5th November 2004, 01:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: Re: Why NON-OS?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kuei Yang Wang
If you do you accept that the measurements of the DAC will be poor in the traditional sense and you accept that the traditional measurements have no bearing whatsoever as measure of sound quality.
Once you have the knowledge about relationship between sound and measurement, you will know that a low level dac chip like 1543 in nonos mode just sounds pleasant to the ear, which has nothing to do with realistic sound reproduction.
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Old 5th November 2004, 04:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Re: Re: Why NON-OS?

Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by Bernhard
Once you have the knowledge about relationship between sound and measurement, you will know that a low level dac chip like 1543 in nonos mode just sounds pleasant to the ear, which has nothing to do with realistic sound reproduction.
Please Bernhard, you need to learn not to mix up issues.

Non-Os is one topic, TDA1543 is another. The two are NOT the same, hence your comments are entierly off topic.

If you want to go TDA1543 bashing suit yourself, HOWEVER please refrain from mixing the performance of this very chip up with the Non-Os principle.

In fact, if you understand just HOW BAD the TDA1543 is you wonder how it can be acceptable at all and in traditional applications it is not, it is positively evil. In Non-Os the subjective performance is surprisingly acceptable though.

However you may be well aware that I do not champion the TDA1543 for DIY DAC's at all, I have been suggesting TDA1541 and PCM63 as best choices with TDA1545 and PCM1702/1704 as other good options. The PCM56 is a reasonable outside bet. I have tried most of them BTW at some time, OS and Non-Os.

Sayonara

PS, I suspect, from your previous posts that you do not understand the relation between what is measured and how humans hear particulary well, but that is purely my personal opinion....
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Old 5th November 2004, 04:48 PM   #5
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I think it's the same thing like with tube-amps. Some people like that sound, although/because it has more distortions than a transistor-amp.

On some recordings they use enhancers - a simple circuit that add distortions at higher frequencies. The result ist a fresher sound.

Regards

Jobstens
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Old 5th November 2004, 06:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why NON-OS?

Quote:
Originally posted by visualwang
Why so many guys select Non-OS here, is Non-OS superior than OS or only simple to DIY? Could anybody give me the advantage of Non-OS?
Fool-proof simplicity ? Inoffensive, though uninvolving sound or variable sound depending on the dac.

Quote:

How we resolve the LPF problem in NOS mode, which is the most difficult issue and then lead to the oversampling technique in the now CD players.
Observation suggests you don't.
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Old 5th November 2004, 06:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Re: Why NON-OS?

Quote:
Originally posted by rfbrw

though uninvolving sound
Experience shows that there is much more uninvolving OS DACS than you can find it between NOS ones.
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Old 5th November 2004, 07:20 PM   #8
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My experience with non-os dac 1543 and 1541A is quite involving.
Musically good.Also surprising.
Depending on the I/V stage and Balanced or SE mode.

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Old 5th November 2004, 07:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Experience shows that there is much more uninvolving OS DACS than you can find it between NOS ones.
I'm not making sense if this. awkward to my eyes.

Do you mean to say, "Experience shows that you can find many more uninvolving OS DACs than NOS DACs?

David
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Old 5th November 2004, 07:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by stefanobilliani
My experience with non-os dac 1543 and 1541A is quite involving.
Musically good.Also surprising.
Depending on the I/V stage and Balanced or SE mode.

If one is considering specific dacs as opposed to nos in general then the tda pair are particularly dire. A commercial nos dac, AD based, (nos for reasons of cost and indifference to audio quality) from around 1992 did have decent bass and the BB stuff showed potential. But throw in a decent digital filter and things start to get interesting.
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