TDA1541A running in 96Khz!!!!! - diyAudio
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Old 26th October 2004, 11:31 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Talking TDA1541A running in 96Khz!!!!!

Hi dear all,

this recent days I was testing for some parts. The performance is quite interesting.

I hope to collect some advise from more diyer.

pls advise!!


I checked the data sheet of the TDA1541a that can running over higher than 192Khz but I was afraid that the chips will very hot & unstable with more digital noise.

So I try to running the tda1541a in 96Khz.

The method was my DAC ( Twin TDA1541a) had I2S input.
I used CS8414 digital received & added one CS8420 change the data steam to 24Bit 96Khz ( not Use digital filter as DF1706 or 1706 so tda1541a still running at non-oversampling). The HF of the sound field is quite good.

So I test another method which used CS8414>> DF1704
( upsampling to 24Bit 96Khz)

All two condition pass to TDA1541a data steam is 96khz. so it means TDA1451a is running at 16 bit 96Khz.

The result is quite different. The CS8414 + 8420 is more musical than CS8414 with DF1704.

I will later test only added the re-clock to the original kit to compare the different.


BTW..... any diyer can advise me!!!!!!!!

CD driver running with my non-oversampling is
Cayin CDT-15A. This cd driver can provide a original 44.1/48K or 96Khz data steam to DA converter
The first result was getting by this set.


I had TDA1541a data sheet from philips on hand. anyone like to reference pls email to me.

thomas@diyaudiocraft.com

hope can get more advise.


thx

thomas
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Old 26th October 2004, 06:48 PM   #2
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Default Re: TDA1541A running in 96Khz!!!!!

Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by tube-lover
I checked the data sheet of the TDA1541a that can running over higher than 192Khz but I was afraid that the chips will very hot & unstable with more digital noise.
Don't be.

Based on some old documents from Philips I have around, the TDA1541 was intended for up to 8 Times oversampling at 48KHz, in other words, 384KHz sample rate. Anything up to that will be fine, in any CD Player it was routinely run at 44.1KHz X 4 or 176.4KHz.

Quote:
Originally posted by tube-lover
I used CS8414 digital received & added one CS8420 change the data steam to 24Bit 96Khz ( not Use digital filter as DF1706 or 1706 so tda1541a still running at non-oversampling). The HF of the sound field is quite good.
What you are doing is in effect bringing back the Digital filter through the backdoor. This time it merely is off a different structure in in most ways more "primitive" than that used in a DAC, as it is not intended as oversampling filter. It's a matter of taste.

You may wish to consider the AS1896 ASRC which would allow No-Oversampling, Syncronous Oversampling to 2/4 times and asyncronous Oversampling to 1/2/4 times a seperate clock, posibly 48KHz rather than 44.1KHz or perhaps both....

Similarly, the CS8420 can be receiver and be used for either syncronous or asyncronous oversampling at a Factor of 2 with either 44.1KHz or 48KHz as baserate.

Sayonara
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Old 26th October 2004, 08:03 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Talking TDA1541A running in 96Khz!!!!!

Dear T,

If I only combine use the CS8414 digital receiver & pass the data steam to CS8420 ( It means I did not use the Digital filter because 1541a only running in I2S).
Am I must mix with the oscillator than pass a 96Khz data steam to 1541a.

Is this a good method???

I think the working mode of the tda1541a did not use the DF.That meaning it will be same as running in non-oversampling mode!!
Am I wrong??

thanks for your helpful.

thx

thomas
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Old 26th October 2004, 08:13 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: .
Default Re: TDA1541A running in 96Khz!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by tube-lover

I checked the data sheet of the TDA1541a that can running over higher than 192Khz but I was afraid that the chips will very hot & unstable with more digital noise.


There are certain conditions that apply. The TDA1541/TDA1541A will run with Fs at anything up to 192K in I2S input mode. For up to 384K the data has to be both simultaneous and in offset binary form.
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Old 26th October 2004, 09:23 PM   #5
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Talking TDA1541A running in 96Khz!!!!!

dear rfbrw,

U right, I also check the data sheet already. But I was afraid that 1541a running over 96Khz the chips will too hot, more digital noise & unstable. So I thought running in 96Khz will be better!

BTW, I would like to try use one CS8414 than pass 2 CS8420 with 192Khz (16 bit) to try in I2S mode. But I thought I will not success. Try this experiment was interesting!

Any suggestion for this??

TDA1541a DAC hadn't running 96Khz or higher mode before. I would like to try.

thx

thomas
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Old 26th October 2004, 11:31 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Default Re: TDA1541A running in 96Khz!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by tube-lover
dear rfbrw,

U right, I also check the data sheet already. But I was afraid that 1541a running over 96Khz the chips will too hot, more digital noise & unstable. So I thought running in 96Khz will be better!

BTW, I would like to try use one CS8414 than pass 2 CS8420 with 192Khz (16 bit) to try in I2S mode. But I thought I will not success. Try this experiment was interesting!

Any suggestion for this??

TDA1541a DAC hadn't running 96Khz or higher mode before. I would like to try.

thx

thomas
I don't see any problem running the TDA1541A at 96k, that would be the maximum for the I2S input mode. At 192K the maximum value for BCK would be exceeded.
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Old 27th October 2004, 06:30 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Talking TDA1541A running in 96Khz!!!!!

rfbrw,

Quote:
don't see any problem running the TDA1541A at 96k, that would be the maximum for the I2S input mode. At 192K the maximum value for BCK would be exceeded.
thanks for your comment.

I would like to run 1541a in 96khz & test for several weeks for its stability. Any more noise & actual sound quality.

I will test this mode in both standard 1541a & 1541a S1 same time.

This will easy to upgrade for normal non-oversampling DAC with added the CS8420 & some parts.

I think 192K will not stable although run with S1.

BTW, this will be interesting, I can hear & try to compare 16,20,24 bits 96 Khz sound quality. Too high ~KHz is not my cup of tea.

thx

thomas
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Old 27th October 2004, 08:49 AM   #8
banana is offline banana  Hong Kong
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Hi Thomas,

Kuei Yang Wang is right. Once you alter the sampling rate using CS8420 (or other SRC device), the CS8420 is also acting as a FIR filter by itself. So, there is still time smearing. AD1896 and SRC4192 datasheets cover more about their architecture and filter performance.

The advantage of SRC is the asynchronous reclock that remove low frequency jitter.
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Old 27th October 2004, 10:12 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Talking TDA1541A running in 96Khz!!!!!

hi banana,

so U will advise me to use re-clock on the 1541a or use cs8420 run with 96Khz for 1541A!!

pls advise!

thx

thomas
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Old 27th October 2004, 11:02 AM   #10
Marek is offline Marek  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Katowice
Hello Thomas,

Ofcourse Kuei Yang Wang and Banana is right! Any sample rate conversion uses digital filters (FIRs - because they have linear phase characteristic) - look at page 15 of CS8420 datasheet.... You can use 8420 in SRC bypass mode but there is no sense to use it in your circuit, it has sense only when 8420 works as spdif receiver. Diffirence beetween sound in CS8414 + 8420 and CS8414 + DF1704 is the result of diffirent FIRs in 8420 and DF1704 (diffrent filters coeficients, number of taps). Anyway both combinations are surly NOT non-os.

@Banana - ASRCs remove high frequency jitter due to use analog PLL or digital servo loop (both uses LPF in the feedback...)

Sorry for my english...

Regards,
Marek
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