I have a Denon DCD S-10II cd player. search all the relevant cd reclocking websites but it seems like there is nothing on clocking this player. I opened up the player and was surprised that it actually has two oscillators, both 16.934Mhz types....one very near to the receiver YM3623 chip and the other one in another area of the board.
I remember reading from one of the threads here that the Sony XA series of players have two of these as well...and there may be some complications in reclocking them, as mentioned by Elso Kwak. Pardon me if i got this wrong.
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=digital&n=69863&highlight=elso+sony&r=&session=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=32946&highlight=
Is it the same case for this Denon player?
I remember reading from one of the threads here that the Sony XA series of players have two of these as well...and there may be some complications in reclocking them, as mentioned by Elso Kwak. Pardon me if i got this wrong.
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=digital&n=69863&highlight=elso+sony&r=&session=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=32946&highlight=
Is it the same case for this Denon player?
Hi Commstech,
I have successfully modified DENON DCD - 1650SR. However, I obtained service manual from DENON Spare Parts first. I suggest you do the same. Send us diagram of digital section of your player and we should be able to help you.
My 1650 uses 4 PCM1704 DACs in dual differential mode, fed by DENON '24/96 upsempler', or how they call it: 'AL24 processing'. There's 16.9344MHz xtal feeding DSP chip, which in turn generates two clock signals. First being 4.2MHz which feeds transport section, and second being 16.9344 feeding 'upsemler' chip. I have replaced the 16.9344 xtal with XO3 clock, fed the main clock signal to DSP chip, and auxiliary clock signal to upsempling chip. The result was excellent!!! However, you have to use very good external power supply for the XO3. This makes big difference.
You should be able to implement XO3 clock (or similar clock with two clock signal outputs) in your CD player. Just remember and pay particular attention to the power supply. Service Manual should not be difficult to obtain, and it will give you directions to all other upgrades possibilities, not only clock!
Regards,
Extreme_Boky
I have successfully modified DENON DCD - 1650SR. However, I obtained service manual from DENON Spare Parts first. I suggest you do the same. Send us diagram of digital section of your player and we should be able to help you.
My 1650 uses 4 PCM1704 DACs in dual differential mode, fed by DENON '24/96 upsempler', or how they call it: 'AL24 processing'. There's 16.9344MHz xtal feeding DSP chip, which in turn generates two clock signals. First being 4.2MHz which feeds transport section, and second being 16.9344 feeding 'upsemler' chip. I have replaced the 16.9344 xtal with XO3 clock, fed the main clock signal to DSP chip, and auxiliary clock signal to upsempling chip. The result was excellent!!! However, you have to use very good external power supply for the XO3. This makes big difference.
You should be able to implement XO3 clock (or similar clock with two clock signal outputs) in your CD player. Just remember and pay particular attention to the power supply. Service Manual should not be difficult to obtain, and it will give you directions to all other upgrades possibilities, not only clock!
Regards,
Extreme_Boky
Hi Commstech,
I think the DCD S10 is quite similar to a DCD 3000 my brother once modded.
The clock located near the reciever has no other function than helping it to recognize what sampling frequency is present on the SPDIF input. So there will be no improvement if you change this for a better one.
Just replace the second 16.9344MHz clock that feeds the decoder and alpha processor.
Regards,
Fabian
I think the DCD S10 is quite similar to a DCD 3000 my brother once modded.
The clock located near the reciever has no other function than helping it to recognize what sampling frequency is present on the SPDIF input. So there will be no improvement if you change this for a better one.
Just replace the second 16.9344MHz clock that feeds the decoder and alpha processor.
Regards,
Fabian
I really wished i had kept my DCD-3000, but the rent was due and well.....
I have really liked Denon CD-players, i have had quite a few over the years. I had a DCD-1520 for at least 5 until the laser finally died. then i got the 3000....
What do you guys think of the 3000??? what would you consider to be better in the $400.00 Used price range???
Zero
I have really liked Denon CD-players, i have had quite a few over the years. I had a DCD-1520 for at least 5 until the laser finally died. then i got the 3000....
What do you guys think of the 3000??? what would you consider to be better in the $400.00 Used price range???
Zero
Hi Extreme_Boky,
I have read here that you upgraded a Denon DCD. I have two of them, a DCD-755 and a DCD-1450. I tweaked the 755 with success, and I bought the 1450 non functional, for repairing. The problem should be simple, it's not spinning up the cd so the FOK signal is not there I guess. (The spindle motor is OK). I would need to know how to go to "heat run mode" or "service mode" with the player, thought you may have the service manual for th 1650, and maybe these things do not differ too much. I have a manual for the DCD-2560, but that's totally different so I just don't want to try that on the 1450.
If you have the answers to my questions any help is appreciated.
Regards,
m127
I have read here that you upgraded a Denon DCD. I have two of them, a DCD-755 and a DCD-1450. I tweaked the 755 with success, and I bought the 1450 non functional, for repairing. The problem should be simple, it's not spinning up the cd so the FOK signal is not there I guess. (The spindle motor is OK). I would need to know how to go to "heat run mode" or "service mode" with the player, thought you may have the service manual for th 1650, and maybe these things do not differ too much. I have a manual for the DCD-2560, but that's totally different so I just don't want to try that on the 1450.
If you have the answers to my questions any help is appreciated.
Regards,
m127
Thank you! That would be a great help! Size is no problem, I have a pretty good email address in Sweden, that can handle large mails. Please send it to: miklos.szaloczy(at)spray.se
Today I've managed to find out how to activate the heat run mode, and it returned with the E1 message, so my 1450 cannot achieve focus. Just as I suspected.
Today I've managed to find out how to activate the heat run mode, and it returned with the E1 message, so my 1450 cannot achieve focus. Just as I suspected.
The tray switch is OK. After closing the tray I can see the lens moving up and down trying to achieve focus and then it gives up, so either the pickup is faulty or something is not set correctly (like spindle platter height or so). Unfortunately I don't have an IR meter so I cannot tell if the diode produces the beam.
I tried to send you a mail but didn't manage (the server must be down). I'll try again.
m127
I tried to send you a mail but didn't manage (the server must be down). I'll try again.
m127
Hi Ruach,
I have sent detailed circuit diagrams for digital and analog sections. Both are full resolution pdf diagrams with links.
If you really need the full Service Manual, I will have to upload it to ftp server and provide you the link to download, the size of the whole manual is 15MB. Let me know if you need the whole manual...
Regards,
Nick
I have sent detailed circuit diagrams for digital and analog sections. Both are full resolution pdf diagrams with links.
If you really need the full Service Manual, I will have to upload it to ftp server and provide you the link to download, the size of the whole manual is 15MB. Let me know if you need the whole manual...
Regards,
Nick
I will keep the full Service Manual on the ftp server for a week or so..
http://files.schneider-electric.com.au/Automation_and_Control/1650SR.zip
Boky
http://files.schneider-electric.com.au/Automation_and_Control/1650SR.zip
Boky
Hey Boky...
I had a good look at the manual for the 1650SR that you posted above - -and thank you very much for it
I actually have the 1650AR, which has a different output stage - it has both fixed and variable outputs. Do you know how much difference there may be in the final stages of these two models?
Also, what is with the clutter of op-amp stages between the DACs and the jacks? I have never see so many op-amps - almost looks like it was designed for balanced output (4 DAC chips), then they changed their mind and summed it together into single-ended.
Any help greatly appreciated
Jess
I had a good look at the manual for the 1650SR that you posted above - -and thank you very much for it
I actually have the 1650AR, which has a different output stage - it has both fixed and variable outputs. Do you know how much difference there may be in the final stages of these two models?
Also, what is with the clutter of op-amp stages between the DACs and the jacks? I have never see so many op-amps - almost looks like it was designed for balanced output (4 DAC chips), then they changed their mind and summed it together into single-ended.
Any help greatly appreciated
Jess
No worries JesseG....
Your model may be 20 bit version with 1702. It may also have single DAC chip per channel - hence the simplified analog output stage.
The 1650SR is 24 bit version with dual differential DAC's (1704) and analog stage compensated in time domain. It is wonderful machine but extensively modified. My NOS 1541 (point-to-point wried !) and Audiomeca Mephisto transport were used as a reference. The sound I'm getting from this DENON is very close, in some respects even better compared to the above combo.
The first IC is AD8066 (fantastic detail retrieval and speed, needs to be properly implemented to perform at its best as I/V - it shines!!!).
Second differential to single end stage is with LM4562 (AD826 works well - personal choice....)
Third is AD826 - the faster the better at this particular point), the last one is OP275 "bridged" (I don't use headphones' buffer, so both half's are bridged and used as a single buffer to drive interconnects / amplifier.
The above configuration actually gives amazing results. It works very well even with unpredicted interconnect loads / pre-amps and / or amps; important when I go to do demos...
The PCB ground layer was optimized for very low noise - segregated between microprocessor ground (the noisiest by huge margin - it should not really share the same ground with DAC's and upsempler!!!), DAC ground and upsempler ground. This optimization should be the first step if you are serious about modifying digital equipment This step brings the biggest benefits. It should be followed by everything else...
Good luck with your Denon mods
Boky
Your model may be 20 bit version with 1702. It may also have single DAC chip per channel - hence the simplified analog output stage.
The 1650SR is 24 bit version with dual differential DAC's (1704) and analog stage compensated in time domain. It is wonderful machine but extensively modified. My NOS 1541 (point-to-point wried !) and Audiomeca Mephisto transport were used as a reference. The sound I'm getting from this DENON is very close, in some respects even better compared to the above combo.
The first IC is AD8066 (fantastic detail retrieval and speed, needs to be properly implemented to perform at its best as I/V - it shines!!!).
Second differential to single end stage is with LM4562 (AD826 works well - personal choice....)
Third is AD826 - the faster the better at this particular point), the last one is OP275 "bridged" (I don't use headphones' buffer, so both half's are bridged and used as a single buffer to drive interconnects / amplifier.
The above configuration actually gives amazing results. It works very well even with unpredicted interconnect loads / pre-amps and / or amps; important when I go to do demos...
The PCB ground layer was optimized for very low noise - segregated between microprocessor ground (the noisiest by huge margin - it should not really share the same ground with DAC's and upsempler!!!), DAC ground and upsempler ground. This optimization should be the first step if you are serious about modifying digital equipment This step brings the biggest benefits. It should be followed by everything else...
Good luck with your Denon mods
Boky
Hi Boky
Thanks for answering
The 1650AR has 4 1702s, I guess 2 per chanel.
As I said, I guess that it might be possible to get full balanced out with some work.
I would really like to get a manual for this exact machine. There are lots of similarities to the SR version, but some differences too.
I was thinking about a balanced tube O/P stage - there is lots of room. But, it works so well now that I am tempted to not mess with it. It has the most articulate bass of any CDP I have tried.
I think I will live with it for a few weeks and then decide whether to hack the O/P stages or not.
Are there any mechanical tweeks that you can recommend?
Jess
Thanks for answering
The 1650AR has 4 1702s, I guess 2 per chanel.
As I said, I guess that it might be possible to get full balanced out with some work.
I would really like to get a manual for this exact machine. There are lots of similarities to the SR version, but some differences too.
I was thinking about a balanced tube O/P stage - there is lots of room. But, it works so well now that I am tempted to not mess with it. It has the most articulate bass of any CDP I have tried.
I think I will live with it for a few weeks and then decide whether to hack the O/P stages or not.
Are there any mechanical tweeks that you can recommend?
Jess
Hi JesseG,
The only material worth considering is acrylic. It has to be very dense, usually black in colour. Something similar can be found in old marshalling cabinets / cubicles, but the ideal material would be even denser and much softer. The whole mechanism should be encapsulated in a large block of this material.
I learned this by experimenting, but also from various transports I've seen and modified. It sounds best by unbelievable margin and is absolute must if you aim for the ultimate result.
Metal plates sound cold, sterile and lifeless.
Nothing much you can do with commercial players. My Denon resides on 3 spikes and large block of this material, which brings nice and natural texture to the sound.
If you want to know how it should be done for ultimate sound reproduction, check Audiomeca and their range of transports / players (I don’t think they are in business any more, but you should be able to find the white papers…)
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue15/audiomeca.htm
Boky
The only material worth considering is acrylic. It has to be very dense, usually black in colour. Something similar can be found in old marshalling cabinets / cubicles, but the ideal material would be even denser and much softer. The whole mechanism should be encapsulated in a large block of this material.
I learned this by experimenting, but also from various transports I've seen and modified. It sounds best by unbelievable margin and is absolute must if you aim for the ultimate result.
Metal plates sound cold, sterile and lifeless.
Nothing much you can do with commercial players. My Denon resides on 3 spikes and large block of this material, which brings nice and natural texture to the sound.
If you want to know how it should be done for ultimate sound reproduction, check Audiomeca and their range of transports / players (I don’t think they are in business any more, but you should be able to find the white papers…)
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue15/audiomeca.htm
Boky
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