I want to convert about a couple of hundred of my vinyl LPs over to the digital realm to either play them on DVD-A or even mix them down to 44.1 so I can listen to them on CDs.
Almost none of these records ever made it to CD, so just buying them in that format is not an option for me plus that would be ridiculously expensive in any event.
I have searched, but I have not found anything here that resulted in a completed project that I could just build that would do high quality 24/192 A/D conversions.
I want something a bit better than I could normally get on a computer sound card and the good rack-mount boxes are $2,000 - $10,000.
So I'm wondering, just how hard would this be?
A friend of mine gave me three CS5381 chips and said he would get me a reference board (for $150) if I wanted one.
What would be the best way to go about this?
Should I just buy the reference board and hook power to it or can we do a collaborative effort with people here from the site and get a better result for cheaper?
I have three of these chips, I only need one, so if anybody is willing to help me I could part with two of these.
Is this possible or is this just a completely hair-brained idea?
Almost none of these records ever made it to CD, so just buying them in that format is not an option for me plus that would be ridiculously expensive in any event.
I have searched, but I have not found anything here that resulted in a completed project that I could just build that would do high quality 24/192 A/D conversions.
I want something a bit better than I could normally get on a computer sound card and the good rack-mount boxes are $2,000 - $10,000.
So I'm wondering, just how hard would this be?
A friend of mine gave me three CS5381 chips and said he would get me a reference board (for $150) if I wanted one.
What would be the best way to go about this?
Should I just buy the reference board and hook power to it or can we do a collaborative effort with people here from the site and get a better result for cheaper?
I have three of these chips, I only need one, so if anybody is willing to help me I could part with two of these.
Is this possible or is this just a completely hair-brained idea?
Hi
Never trust a semiconductor manufacturer demo board for sound quality
Designing and building an AD is not a beginners project
If you want to spend money then buy an AD, if you want to spend time design one
You might look at
www.Grimmaudio.com
cheers
Never trust a semiconductor manufacturer demo board for sound quality
Designing and building an AD is not a beginners project
If you want to spend money then buy an AD, if you want to spend time design one
You might look at
www.Grimmaudio.com
cheers
I'm sure the AD-1 is a beautiful sounding converter and I'm quite positive it is well beyond my price range as well. If I win the lottery, I will call you Guido.
So back to the original question, as I have more time than money.
Has anybody ever done this before?
Is it really that difficult (more than a D/A converter), or is it just not something that is in high demand?
So back to the original question, as I have more time than money.
Has anybody ever done this before?
Is it really that difficult (more than a D/A converter), or is it just not something that is in high demand?
Guido tent,
the smart man!!!
I just confirmed that Guido Tent not a beautiful girl
http://www.grimmaudio.com/whoiswho.htm
the smart man!!!
I just confirmed that Guido Tent not a beautiful girl
http://www.grimmaudio.com/whoiswho.htm
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I think you might have a couple problems. First, designing an A/D that outperforms what's available will be very tough - the noise levels on the top-grade gear (even soundcards) is very very low - your board layout and quality will have to be top-notch to compete. Second, transmitting @192 is still somewhat new, so you will need to make sure whatever soundcard you use can handle 192kHz via spdif.
You might want to look at the Emu 1212 before you get too far. It performs *very* well for the price - under $200. Maybe not up to the very highest grade external boxes, but far better than you might expect. It might even be attractive as a stop-gap while you design the project if you go that way.
I'm sure you're aware of this, but software to burn DVD-A disks is still pretty new and very expensive for full-featured versions. You can get 48kHz for cheap, and it *might* do 96 in stereo (not sure) but full 192 and/or MLP is still big $$$$ AFAIK. If 96kHz is 'good enough' you can just use DVD-Video with a 96kHz LPCM soundtrack which is much more accessable.
You might want to look at the Emu 1212 before you get too far. It performs *very* well for the price - under $200. Maybe not up to the very highest grade external boxes, but far better than you might expect. It might even be attractive as a stop-gap while you design the project if you go that way.
I'm sure you're aware of this, but software to burn DVD-A disks is still pretty new and very expensive for full-featured versions. You can get 48kHz for cheap, and it *might* do 96 in stereo (not sure) but full 192 and/or MLP is still big $$$$ AFAIK. If 96kHz is 'good enough' you can just use DVD-Video with a 96kHz LPCM soundtrack which is much more accessable.
Perhaps he means the TI PCM1802 but as you already have the CS5381 you might as well run with it.
I tend to disagree with dwk123 as to the difficulty involved but that is another matter. The odds are you will be creating CD or DVD discs on a PC and that brings us to the issue of getting the audio into the computer. Good digital smux- or dual/quad speed AES- capable audio i/f cards are not cheap as they are invariably aimed at the multichannel user. For the same price you would probably a pretty good card with on-board ADC converters.
I tend to disagree with dwk123 as to the difficulty involved but that is another matter. The odds are you will be creating CD or DVD discs on a PC and that brings us to the issue of getting the audio into the computer. Good digital smux- or dual/quad speed AES- capable audio i/f cards are not cheap as they are invariably aimed at the multichannel user. For the same price you would probably a pretty good card with on-board ADC converters.
It is not as easy as it looks. You need a good driver and interface (or how do you intend to record your signal on HDD?), who will write it for you? You need to have a stable clock plus different minor things. I recommend to use Lynx L22 for this purpose, it can handle 24/192 quite well. I bought it for less then $500 on ebay, and it worth. AK5394, used in it, is even better then CS5381 in specs, the level of jitter in L22 is below 20ps at frequencies 400-20000Hz (measured using AP). You can just replace OPA2227 in it, and it will be a VERY good ADC ... for that level of price, IMO. I will publish the measurements with such replacement soon.
Saying trully, 24/192 is still too much for vynil records IMO, except if you want to publish them on DVD-A using MLP ... 24/96 is quite enough - take a look at the spectrum of LP records: http://users.bigpond.net.au/christie/comparo/chariots-lp-s.gif
Saying trully, 24/192 is still too much for vynil records IMO, except if you want to publish them on DVD-A using MLP ... 24/96 is quite enough - take a look at the spectrum of LP records: http://users.bigpond.net.au/christie/comparo/chariots-lp-s.gif
Designing and building an AD is not a beginners project
If you want to spend money then buy an AD, if you want to spend time design one
You might look at
www.Grimmaudio.com
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True, amany pro A/D are not much good. Computer cards are even worse (they use 4558 or 4580 opampa! - the cheapest).
Guido, you should consider renaming Grimm - doesn't sound (and mean) appealing in English (Grim!).
The Elektor A/D is good, especially if you use high qaulity audio components.
If you want to spend money then buy an AD, if you want to spend time design one
You might look at
www.Grimmaudio.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
True, amany pro A/D are not much good. Computer cards are even worse (they use 4558 or 4580 opampa! - the cheapest).
Guido, you should consider renaming Grimm - doesn't sound (and mean) appealing in English (Grim!).
The Elektor A/D is good, especially if you use high qaulity audio components.
Do what? Swap op amps? A bit later I will publish the process description with pictures at my website.BillyJoeJimBob said:
Good point. And what is the price for Grimm Audio A/D converter?fmak said:Designing and building an AD is not a beginners project
If you want to spend money then buy an AD, if you want to spend time design one
You might look at
www.Grimmaudio.com
Not all of them. Good pro ones or new ones use better elements, for exampe Lynx Two or L22 (2-channel version of Lynx Two) both use OPA2227 and OP275 (significantly better then 4558 or 4580), E-mu 1212M and 1820M use JRC2068 (used widely in Consumer good electronics), they are also better then 4558 or 4580 (less distortions).
Actually Lynx Two or L22 is a very good card already, without any op amps swap, such replacement can be done just instead of the designing of the new A/D and to be sure that you use the best elements, not 100% necessary. Here are it's measurements:
24/192 - required task: http://audio.rightmark.org/test/lynx-two-b-32192.html
24-96 (I would recommend for LP digitalization) http://audio.rightmark.org/test/lynx-two-b-2496.html
Please take in mind that those specifications are for the analog LOOP, it means both A/D and D/A circuits had been tested. For only A/D circuit the distortions would be approximately twice less.
Not all of them. Good pro ones or new ones use better elements, for exampe Lynx Two or L22 (2-channel version of Lynx Two) both use OPA2227 and OP275 (significantly better then 4558 or 4580), E-mu 1212M and 1820M use JRC2068 (used widely in Consumer good electronics), they are also better then 4558 or 4580 (less distortions). [/B][/QUOTE]
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How much do we have to pay for a L:ynx in UK - too much!
I have no confidence in Creative Products. The old EMU card is rubbish. JRC 2068 doesn't sound good.
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How much do we have to pay for a L:ynx in UK - too much!
I have no confidence in Creative Products. The old EMU card is rubbish. JRC 2068 doesn't sound good.
Actually you have the same ebay in UK as we have here in the USAfmak said:Not all of them. Good pro ones or new ones use better elements, for exampe Lynx Two or L22 (2-channel version of Lynx Two) both use OPA2227 and OP275 (significantly better then 4558 or 4580), E-mu 1212M and 1820M use JRC2068 (used widely in Consumer good electronics), they are also better then 4558 or 4580 (less distortions).
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How much do we have to pay for a L:ynx in UK - too much!
I have no confidence in Creative Products. The old EMU card is rubbish. JRC 2068 doesn't sound good.
It is not easy to buy a Lynx soundcard for a good price, as it is in the high demand, but this task is not impossible. E-mu uses 2 different crystals now, for 48 and 44.1. I agree with you that JRC2068 is not the best op amp available, but 1212M and 1820M use CS4398 DACs and AK5394 ADCs, therefore you can swap op amps without any problem, and it will be a good soundcard. Isn't it easier then to design a new one? If you will make just A/D, then how do you intend to transfer the digital signal, through SPDIF? It will be even worse then using of JRC2068. There are no PC cards or interfaces with i-link (supporting AV/C)... then you have to deal with jitter in the process of transferring the signal from separate A/D to PC, and a soundcard has no such problem, as it usually uses internal I2S bus.
We have some perfect pro solutions though, for example dCS A/D or EMM Labs ADC, but they cost a lot of money ... I doubt that it worth to use such stuff for LPs at home.
Anyway they use PLL sync restoration, it means - we need to add some jitter.rfbrw said:
The majority of professional editing tools use PC
And you offer to use external A/D, transfer the signal from it to Lynx AE16 by SPDIF or AES/EBU and then record on HDD? Do you really think that this way is better then record directly from a good LP player through A/D convertor in Lynx? I would love to see the measurements with comparison
Once you get beyond a few channels, outboard conversion and transfer via MADI or ADAT is the norm. 16channel ADC soundcards are few and far between. Editing can be done on anything. Conversion is something else.
Whether external conversion is better or worse than internal conversion frankly I don't much care so long as I can use the ADC I choose.
Whether external conversion is better or worse than internal conversion frankly I don't much care so long as I can use the ADC I choose.
Don't forget about the initial task - to convert LPs with the best possible quality to digital, 24/192 or (my addition, 24/96). It means - 2 channels actually.rfbrw said:
This is the best way, but it costs more, correct? If some people here can't afford Lynx alone, how can they afford Lynx plus an external ADC?
Gordon McGregor said:Actually you have the same ebay in UK as we have here in the USA
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Actually it is not easy. In UK, distributors charge 1.8 times US price.
In the US, many of your dealers are simply not equipped to ship abroad. Instead of using USPS, many use UPS DHL etc. This results in very high charges.
US eBay dealers are also poor in communication. No comparison to UK or Germany, I am afraid.
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