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Old 7th July 2004, 12:01 PM   #11
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Default Re: Re: Tda1541a non-o/s DAC PCB

Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by peranders
I know quite many like the old 1541 DAC but how about using a top-of-the-line DAC?
Hmmm. Most current "top of the line" DAC's perform much worse than the TDA1541 applied well, in objective terms as well as subjective. In addition, most of these come with a Digital Filter on board and are Delta Sigma types, more or less disqualifying them from serious audio.

That does not leave much and the TDA1541 has a rather singular type of sound, not matched by anything else, for CD only replay.

Sayonara
 
Old 7th July 2004, 12:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: Re: Re: Tda1541a non-o/s DAC PCB

Quote:
Originally posted by Kuei Yang Wang
Hmmm. Most current "top of the line" DAC's perform much worse than the TDA1541 applied well...
Really? I wonder why so few knows about it? Why do we want SACD and 24/96 quality when 1541 is good enough? You don't have to answer....
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Old 7th July 2004, 12:23 PM   #13
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Tda1541a non-o/s DAC PCB

Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by peranders
Really?
REALLy.

Quote:
Originally posted by peranders
I wonder why so few knows about it?
Long discontinued chip. It was too expensive to make, uneconomical.

Quote:
Originally posted by peranders
Why do we want SACD and 24/96 quality when 1541 is good enough? You don't have to answer....
I have to answer, as you choose not to read my post:

"the TDA1541 has a rather singular type of sound, not matched by anything else, for CD only replay."

SACD is of no concern to me (it does not deliver to my ears a SIGNIFICANT improvement over CD anyway, it is more of the same - if you liked CD you will like SACD, if not, you won't), 24/96 is very much of interest but ther eis no software and all my music not on LP is on CD.

So to me the new formats over ther ein cloud cookoo land are irelevant, as they are a mixture of vapor ware (24/96 & 24/192 recordings) and average stuff crippled by either format or recording/editing process (SACD - what I have heard of it anyway).

Hence my concern about CD REPLAY. And no, non of the modern "hi-bit" DAC's I have heard so far sounds particulary good with CD. A Hi-Bit ADC-DAC chain is usually very neutral (insertion is hard to tell even non-blind) but the sound with CD is usually poor to awful, indicating a fundamental issue with the CD format.

Sayonara
 
Old 7th July 2004, 12:30 PM   #14
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I respect your views but my ears aren't that sensitive I suppose.

I think my own DAC TOSLINK, CS8412, CS4328 is splendid despite the awful fiber connection and high jitter reciever.

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-50719/hifi/dac

May I ask what singular sound is?

Thomas, is this the asian style of humbleness? If everyone were so polite as you are (listen up a certain one!)! Anyway since I work all day with pcb's I see that you skills are very good, just by looks at least. Your pcb's looks really professional, more professional than some I have have seen! It's really hard to judge how good the patterns is because this is the most difficult task especially if you mix digital and analog ciruits but I'll suspect that your pcb's meet the looks in this respect.

Have you done any amps? ... maybe a Gainclone
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Old 7th July 2004, 01:27 PM   #15
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
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Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by peranders
I respect your views but my ears aren't that sensitive I suppose.

I think my own DAC TOSLINK, CS8412, CS4328 is splendid despite the awful fiber connection and high jitter reciever.
The CS4328 is actually one of the better DS DAC's, though it's DF is non too hot. Still, I agree, it sounds rather uncommonly good with CD, though by far not like the TDA1541 and in most ways providing a rather polar opposite type of sound with CD sources.

Quote:
Originally posted by peranders
May I ask what singular sound is?
Webster's 1913 Dictionary
Sin´gu`lar Pronunciation: sĭò´gũ`lẽr

Separate or apart from others; single; distinct.

Sound

to make an impulse of the air that shall strike the organs of hearing with a perceptible effect.

Thus singular sound is a "impulse of the air that shall strike the organs of hearing with a perceptible effect" which is "Separate or apart from others; single; distinct".

I hope this helps.

Sayonara
 
Old 7th July 2004, 01:59 PM   #16
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I agree, Kuei.
The TDA1541 has a kind of dynamics and character only available on ultra-expensive vinyl.
By comparison, everything else seams too polite.

SACD doesn't really say anything to me, from what I've heard.
Typical 1-bit sound, too polite and smooth, a sleep-inducing experience.
DVD-A is potencially good but they mucked all the format with afterthoughts like the copy-protection they use. And mixing 5.1 channels to two for stereo doesn't really appeal me.
What a mess...
 
Old 7th July 2004, 02:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Tda1541a non-o/s DAC PCB

Quote:
Originally posted by peranders
Really? I wonder why so few knows about it? Why do we want SACD and 24/96 quality when 1541 is good enough? You don't have to answer....
KYW is just stating his preferences. There is no reason you or anybody else should agree with his peculiar tastes in sound. My experience with his “High End” FFRC and “State of the Art” UBYTE-2 speaker cables tells me he doesn’t hear things the way I do. I always take KYW’s recommendations as a negative.

Regarding the TDA1541: Some people like it, and others don’t. Srajan Ebean wrote a rave review of the Zanden DAC on 6moons.com. Yamada-san was so impressed he let Srajan keep the DAC. The funny thing is, Srajan doesn’t really listen to the Zanden because he inserts an Ortho Spectrum AR-2000 in the signal path between the DAC and the pre-amp. Why? He says the Zanden is too polite, no dynamics. The AR-2000 makes the sound more aggressive, which he likes.

Not long ago I had a chance to hear Srajan’s audio system: I wanted his “professional audio reviewer” opinion on my litz-wire speaker cables. I thought the Zanden, alone, sounded sweet and delicate; very feminine, even emasculated or castrated. I could see why Srajan needed to “pump it up.” The AR-2000 contains filters and optical couplers to “remove all traces of contamination from the harsh digital environment” of the DAC. To my ears, it adds the distortion and phase shifts that are the hallmark of bad digital. In other words, it put back everything the Zanden’s notch filters took out. Go figger.

The moral of the story is: Don’t take anyone’s recommendation until you hear their audio system.
 
Old 7th July 2004, 04:35 PM   #18
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The Zanden is NOS.
Non-oversamplig dacs sound very muted in the midband and (specially) in the treble.
I don't know circuit of the Zanden, but if any measure was taken to compensate for the (unavoidable) treble roll-off, it will sound a little too sweet and shut-in indeed.
But even if it was compensated, it may have been to the designer's taste or system.
There are many ways of using this Dac.
The unique thing I find in this dac is a dynamics in the bass, the scale of the bass notes that really seams good analog, the real thing.
Lack of dynamics is definitely not the problem of this chip.
There must be something else on that Zanden.
Midband and treble are excellent too, in level with the best.

When I compare my dac with commercial products, they seam undynamic, no scale, not the real thing.
The only dacs that get near to the TDA1541 are multi-bit too.
And they are all gradually disappearing from the map.
My taste, my oppinion, of course.

 
Old 7th July 2004, 05:16 PM   #19
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by carlosfm
Lack of dynamics is definitely not the problem of this chip.
There must be something else on that Zanden.
Midband and treble are excellent too, in level with the best.
Carlos, you must remember that many audiophiles actually hear "good dynamics" if they have a lot of compression taking place. Compression makes the sound dense, punchy and "interesting", in exactly the way live music (unless heavily compressed and electronically amplified) is not.

So one persons "good dynamics" is anothers "compressed to nearly 1 bit dynamic range".

But I agree very much with jbokelman, "Don’t take anyone’s recommendation until you hear their audio system.".

Someone elses comments on what my (then) system sounded like, but a good description of what I aim at with any audio system I have is this:

"I was amazed to hear how loud Thorsten's system can play without any hint of compression or distortion or fatigue. It is breathing so effortlessly even during the most dynamic and challenging passages. The bass control was excellent. The sound was detailed and natural. Consequently the system excelled particularly on orchestral music. "

Oh yes, the DAC used then was Philips LHH-1000 (nee Marantz DA-12 with Philips TDA-1541 double crown) and the auditioning was with CD....

Sayonara
 
Old 7th July 2004, 06:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kuei Yang Wang
Oh yes, the DAC used then was Philips LHH-1000 (nee Marantz DA-12 with Philips TDA-1541 double crown)...


Quote:
Originally posted by Kuei Yang Wang
...and the auditioning was with CD....
 

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