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Old 16th July 2004, 11:12 AM   #11
JohnW is offline JohnW  Hong Kong
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Location: Discovery Bay, Prague, Paris...
Hi Frank,

Thanks for the offer, but I avoid flying SAS I try to always fly Virgin (from London) instead harks back to the days I used to DJ in JBs & the Jump in HK (the favourite hunting ground for the Virgin Atlantic girls) seemed always to get my free upgrades to first Class

Anyway should you ever find yourself in Prague, Paris or HK, then it would be good to meet up, I should be in Prague for the next month or so - and I believe you can get cheap flights from Amsterdam.....

Ive been considering posting a full Digital amplifier design, the main problem is that 99% of the components are SMD & are difficult to source. The PCB would also be 4 Layer but I guess I could sell Kits, with PCB & components at cost. I could pick up the components from the production lines in China digital 6CH modulators for under $2.50 each! In Qtys, the cost is about $3.5 per 80W channel - and dropping.

Hows your DA design going anyway?

John
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Old 16th July 2004, 01:30 PM   #12
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Default Rendez vous

Hi John,

Interesting, those Virgin girls

Well, Paris or Prague are on the list for a long weekend, perhaps in september to enjoy autumn. First a holliday in Norway and Danmark.

About the design: Im delayed (who isnt) by my day time job which is selling robots for pharmacies. (input, output and management of small boxes.)

So, the schematics are finished. Im planning to mail them at the frequent posters of the dig. amp. thread for comments and perhaps inspiration. Perhaps later Ill post them on on the forum.
PCB is to follow, but that, as you know, is very time consuming. So dont know when. Perhaps a draft version first and have that manufactured and smdd in the oven to test and see if it works.

Perhaps you know an low cost on line pcb manufacturer, in say Czech or in the other former eastern european countries?

Interesting plan, that PWM kit. Does it use the TAS5076 or some other modulator? @ Digikey I pay about Euro 27,- for the 5015. Thats quite a lot. For hobby purposes, its alright but not near your prices!
I assume you leave the NDA stuff out of that design your planning to post?

Ill drop you a mail when I will go to France or Czech. HK is, although very interesting, out of the question...

Cheers,

Frank
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Old 16th July 2004, 05:14 PM   #13
JohnW is offline JohnW  Hong Kong
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Frank,

I cant believe that they charge $27 for the 5015. I have very little contact with pricing in Europe / US but it makes me so frustrated when I hear about such large price differences. Ok I fully understand that they ship millions of Pcs. to Asia, but does this really justify an x10 increase in price?

Ive upset people before with a similar complaint, I would very much like to start a electronics company here in Europe but would just not be able to compete with brands manufactured in Asia. So, until then I spend my time in HK and China.

As to your question about cheap PCBs from Czech Rep its very much the same old problem of cost, lead times and quality control. CZ is pretty much died when it comes to High End electronics technology; just ask PMA and Upupa Epops on this forum. Not really that hard to understand average wage in the CZ I guess is about $300 for say a school teacher, I hear a top flight engineer might earn say $800 a month if really lucky how can a company in the former eastern block afford to invest in test equipment with the prices that Tek & HP command.

Try PCB Pool I hear (I have no personal experience) that they are as just about as cheap as you can get in Europe and good quality.

http://www.leiterplatte.com/uk_index.htm

If I where to do a design for the forum, it would not contain any elements that would infringe on any NDAs etc.

Ive not worked on the amplifier project for the past month or so been spending the time developing improved audio measurement equipment (better then the AP and UPD), and looking into clocking solutions.

John
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Old 15th September 2010, 11:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
Philips have discontinued production of the DAC7 – for a planned project, I need to design a highly accurate switch capacitor network. I remember some of the very early SAA7350 & TDA1547 (DAC7) Data / Application notes described in some detail the architecture / circuit of there switch capacitor networks – showing the basic circuits arrangement of the switch capacitor layout.

The TDA1547 IC01 September 1991 data sheet on the Philips Website no longer shows the switch capacitor layout – would anyone still have a copy of the earlier application / design notes they could Email (or just the page or so describing / showing the SCN).

Has anyone had any experience of designing SCN or used the LTC1043 Switched-Capacitor building block to implement a 1 Bit Dac Network.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Cheers,

John
I recall to a comparable test between a CD player equipped with SAA7350 & TDA1547 some years ago (I think it was the U.K. brand name "ONIX") and with an external DAC (connected to this player) from Nelson Pass (Pass D1).
This ONIX CD Player was one of very very few devices, whereby the sonic different to the D1 was relatively low. However - the D1 sounded better, too, but the kind of sonic difference was not so large than by the most other models.
What do you think - are this DAC chip set also today advantages to modern IC's like AD1955, PCM1704 and PCM1794?

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-...SA-501705.html
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-...SA-497211.html

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 15th September 2010 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 15th September 2010, 11:55 PM   #15
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The TDA1547/SAA7350 chipset is only capable of spectacular sound when it is fed data with impossibly close to zero jitter, and when you don't use it's awful internal i/v converters. Ed Meitner is the only designer I have seen accomplish this, with his famous & still beloved Museatex BiDAT. Once the power supplies & output stages are upgraded to the max, as well as in/out hardware, of course, it is still my pick for best sounding digital source ever. But I'll be building a PD7009B/PCM1702-based dac in the next few months that I genuinely think will beat it. A project for a friend that I'll be no doubt replicating for myself later on.
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Old 16th September 2010, 09:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by stephensank View Post
The TDA1547/SAA7350 chipset is only capable of spectacular sound when it is fed data with impossibly close to zero jitter, and when you don't use it's awful internal i/v converters. Ed Meitner is the only designer I have seen accomplish this, with his famous & still beloved Museatex BiDAT. Once the power supplies & output stages are upgraded to the max, as well as in/out hardware, of course, it is still my pick for best sounding digital source ever. But I'll be building a PD7009B/PCM1702-based dac in the next few months that I genuinely think will beat it. A project for a friend that I'll be no doubt replicating for myself later on.
I have equipped several cd players with a master clock section (own circuit idea for low impedance mode of the crystal; no devices of the good known finished solutions like LC-Clock or Trichord)
Now I understand, why compact disc players with TDA1547 (and Cirrus Logic bitstream DAC like CS4328) delivers the largest step in enhanced sonic quality against before
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Old 16th September 2010, 05:04 PM   #17
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I do think the DAC7 chipset is superior to any other Philips bitstream dacs, but the BiDAT does have the advantage, aside from Meitner's brilliant C-Lock reclocking circuit(2psec peak jitter), of using a Motorola DSP56000 series DSP chip set as an adaptive algorithm digital filter. So, rather a large step up from any other DAC7 implementation, even with a super clock. I DO very much think that the BiDAT would be even more incredible with PCM1702 or PCM1704 dac chips. Someday, I will do just that with one, as soon as I talk a client into letting me do such a radical mod to their $3000 BiDAT.
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Old 16th September 2010, 05:51 PM   #18
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you will find several examples of compact disc player and DAC models equipped with TDA1547:

AUDIOLAB 8000 DAC TDA1547 ? SAA7350 ?SM5843AP DAC
DPA BIGGER BIT TDA1547 (DAC7) DAC
DPA PDM 2 2 x TDA1547 ?SAA7350 DAC
BARCO-EMT 982 PROFESSIONAL TDA1547 (DAC7) CDM-9 Pro
GRUNDIG CD3 FineArts TDA1547 CDM 12.1
GRUNDIG CD 1000 FineArts 2 x DAC(TDA1547) ?TDA1307 CDM 12.1
KENWOOD DP-1001G TDA1547 (DAC7)
KENWOOD DP-7050 TDA1547 (DAC7) ?SM5840CP KSS-210A
KENWOOD DP-7060 TDA1547 (DAC7) ?SM5843AP KSS-240A
KENWOOD L-D1 TDA1547 (DAC7) Kenwood CDM-21
KENWOOD LVD-Z1 TDA1547 (DAC7)
MARANTZ CD-10 2 x TDA1547 CDM-4/36MD
MARANTZ CD-11 LE TDA1547 CDM-4 /D36
MARANTZ CD-11 Mk II 2 x TDA1547 CDM-4/D36
MARANTZ CD-14 2 x TDA1547 ?TDA1307 CDM 12.3
MARANTZ CD-15 2 x TDA1547 CDM-4-MD
MARANTZ CD-16 / CD-16SE 2 x TDA1547 ?SM5803APT CDM-4 - Metallic
MARANTZ CD-16D TDA1547 VAM 1201
MARANTZ CD-17 1 x TDA1547 ?SM5841 - SAA7350 CDM 12.3
MARANTZ CD-17 Mk II TDA1547 ? SM5841 - SAA7350 CDM 12.3
MARANTZ CD-23 2 x TDA1547 (DAC7) CDM-9 Pro
MARANTZ CD-72a TDA1547 CDM-4
MARANTZ CD-72 Mk II SE TDA1547 CDM-4 /28
MARANTZ SA-1 4 x DAC7 (TDA1547) ? TDA1307 CDM-10
MERIDIAN 203 Mk II TDA1547 (DAC7)
MICROMEGA DIALOG TDA1547 DAC
MICROMEGA SOLO TDA1547 CDM 12
MISSION-Cyrus DAC5 TDA1547 DAC
ONIX TDA1547
ONKYO C-1E Integra 2 x TDA1547 (DAC7) ?SM5843P
ONKYO DX-788F Integra 2 x TDA1547 - SAA7350 -SM5843AP NEC SPU3013 - Magnetic
ONKYO DX-6890 Integra 2 x TDA1547 (DAC7) NEC SPU3013 - Magnetic
PHILIPS LHH100M TDA1547 ?SM5840 CDM-9
PHILIPS LHH200R TDA1547 (DAC7) CDM-9
PHILIPS LHH300R TDA1547 (DAC7) ?SAA7350 CDM-9
PHILIPS LHH500R 1 x TDA1547 ?SM5803AP CDM-4 Metallic
PHILIPS LHH600 TDA1547 (DAC7) CDM-4 Metallic
PHILIPS LHH700 2 x TDA1547 ?SM5803APT CDM-4 Metallic
PHILIPS LHH800R 1 x TDA1547 (DAC7) ?SM5803APT CDM-4 Metallic
PHILIPS LHH900R 1 x TDA1547 (DAC7) CDM-4 Metallic
SHERWOOD CD-1 TDA1547 ? SM5813 ?SAA7350 CDM-9 Pro
STUDER?D730 TDA1547 (DAC7) ?SM5813APT CDM-4 Pro
STUDER?D731 TDA1547 (DAC7) ?SM5813APT CDM-4 Pro
REVOX E 426 TDA1547 (DAC7) VAM 1205
SUGDEN CD21SE TDA1547 (DAC7)
TEAC VRDS-10 2 x TDA1547 ?SAA7350 ?SM5840 VRDS CMK-3.2 ? KSS-151A
TEAC VRDS-10SE 2 x TDA1547 -2x SAA7350 - SM5840 VRDS CMK-3.2 ? KSS-151A
TEAC VRDS-20 2 x TDA1547 ?SAA7350 ?SM5840 VRDS CMK-3 ? KSS-151A

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 16th September 2010 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 16th September 2010, 08:11 PM   #19
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Well, my point was that the BiDAT is the only piece to use the TDA1547/SAA7350 dac7 chipset with both a near perfect clock & DSP-based adaptive digital filtering.

Surprised that the copy of the original cd/dac list(CD-Player-DAC-Transport List) on the Korean site you reference does not include the Inkel/InterM Tema CD-1, which is the only Korean cd player I know of that uses the dac7 chipset.

I have not yet upgraded a cd player using the dac7 set, but I do intend to do so soon, just to see what it can do without benefit of Meitner's unique circuitry.
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