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Old 20th June 2004, 12:54 AM   #21
Hajime is offline Hajime  United States
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Till,

I like the looks of that DAC. Have you designed a PCB for your implimenation with the Pass Labs I/V stage? I read about the I/V stage on the linked Pass Labs site and it looks pretty neat. Has there been any comparison of this DAC with others?
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Old 20th June 2004, 01:29 AM   #22
garbage is offline garbage  Singapore
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
I'm glad you like it, it is also my favourite DAC. I was only experimenting with TDA1543 so far, but the results are so good, that I don't feel any need to explore TDA1541 teritory. What you see there, consists a year of research and experimentation. I have plans to release PCB version of that DAC (AC powered) and the protoype can be seen in this thread: The ultimate TDA1543 DAC layout??
Looking forward to your dac project.
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Old 20th June 2004, 02:33 AM   #23
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Originally posted by Hajime
I believe DIY designs are a great value as you can use top-quality components and tailor things to your liking.
DIY is great value but I donít equate great value with great performance. You specifically said you wanted to MATCH the PERFORMANCE of the BEST. I doubt a $700 DIY will match the best Wadia or Audio Note DAC and hereís why.

To match the Wadia sound you will need to implement and program a sophisticated DSP. Unless you are already an expert DSP programmer and have access to a DSP development system and ICE, a Wadia clone is not feasible. As far as I know, no one here has done a Wadia clone and I have not seen one elsewhere on the web.

Duplicating the sound of an AN DAC is more feasible. After all, they are little more than a DAC chip with a vacuum tube buffer and the schematics for all the models are readily available on the web. The hard part will be duplicating the unique sound of the DAC-5 without using the same silver-wire transformers ($$$).

I think your expectations are unreasonable, but have fun.
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Old 20th June 2004, 08:13 AM   #24
amo is offline amo  United States
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Originally posted by jbokelman


Hajime, what do you consider to be the best commercial DACs and what makes you think they can be equaled with a DIY project found on the internet?
jbokelman-

I would be interested to know what you consider CAN NOT be accomplished as a DIY project, especially in terms of DACs. To my ammature mind, it seems like what a DIYer lacks in expensive monitoring/test equipment, he gains through the absence of design constraints such as cost, manufacturing capability, size, looks, etc etc etc! And what about all the EEs who use their employer's labs to work on these wonderfull creations, and share the findings with the rest of us?
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Old 20th June 2004, 11:50 AM   #25
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Till,

I like the looks of that DAC. Have you designed a PCB for your implimenation with the Pass Labs I/V stage? I read about the I/V stage on the linked Pass Labs site and it looks pretty neat. Has there been any comparison of this DAC with others?
I did no PCB, at the moment, i and some friends, compare different prototypes listening to them. I build different variations and test if i like the sound of them. Lets see if there will be a final implementation.
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Old 20th June 2004, 03:11 PM   #26
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Originally posted by jbokelman


DIY is great value but I donít equate great value with great performance. You specifically said you wanted to MATCH the PERFORMANCE of the BEST. I doubt a $700 DIY will match the best Wadia or Audio Note DAC and hereís why.

To match the Wadia sound you will need to implement and program a sophisticated DSP. Unless you are already an expert DSP programmer and have access to a DSP development system and ICE, a Wadia clone is not feasible. As far as I know, no one here has done a Wadia clone and I have not seen one elsewhere on the web.

Duplicating the sound of an AN DAC is more feasible. After all, they are little more than a DAC chip with a vacuum tube buffer and the schematics for all the models are readily available on the web. The hard part will be duplicating the unique sound of the DAC-5 without using the same silver-wire transformers ($$$).

I think your expectations are unreasonable, but have fun.
I find this kind of thinking very odd. The requisite skills to build a top notch dac do not depend on whether or not one is paid. Though duplicating the Wadia is difficult, it is not because of the DSP skills required. The hardest part would replicating Wadia's proprietary filters, though I don't doubt one could come close. Given the impossibility of knowing the choices Wadia made in arriving at their filter parameters, one might as well make one's own choices.
BTW, high performance dacs do not begin and end with AN and Wadia and there are many other routes one can take, The PassLabs D1 being one possibility.
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Old 20th June 2004, 03:19 PM   #27
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Originally posted by amo
I would be interested to know what you consider CAN NOT be accomplished as a DIY project, especially in terms of DACs.
Amo, There are no limits on what an amateur DAC designer can create if he is willing to invest the time and energy required to investigate, learn, and experiment. I was questioning Hajimeís assumption that by copying a DIY project from an audio forum he would get performance that equaled the best commercial DACs.

Which DIY DAC projects, discussed in this forum, do you think MATCH the performance of the best Wadia or Audio Note DAC-5? Which MATCH the performance of the Zanden, Lavry, dCS, or Meitner?
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Old 20th June 2004, 03:34 PM   #28
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Originally posted by jbokelman


Which DIY DAC projects, discussed in this forum, do you think MATCH the performance of the best Wadia or Audio Note DAC-5? Which MATCH the performance of the Zanden, Lavry, dCS, or Meitner?

One would have to be insane to give away that kind of IP. Especially in this place.
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Old 20th June 2004, 03:45 PM   #29
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Though duplicating the Wadia is difficult, it is not because of the DSP skills required. The hardest part would replicating Wadia's proprietary filters, though I don't doubt one could come close.
rfbrw, I think the functions used by in the Wadia filters are well known and the details could be easily discovered by examination of their DSP code; providing one had the knowledge and tools to do it.
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Old 20th June 2004, 05:09 PM   #30
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Originally posted by jbokelman


rfbrw, I think the functions used by in the Wadia filters are well known and the details could be easily discovered by examination of their DSP code; providing one had the knowledge and tools to do it.
The most you can get hold of, without access to Wadia, is the hex code in the rom and thats assuming it is not a OTP device. Disassembling from hex to assembly code listing is not always an exact science.
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