OK so I modded my CD723 - but it's still mediocre - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 1st June 2004, 10:59 PM   #11
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by jean-paul
If you don't care why react ? You can't compare apples and pears but there are really a lot of possibilities with cheap cdplayers. Especially if you dont like to watch tv in your spare time and have a soldering tool waiting.

For bog standard more or less expensive cdplayers without needed work you're on the wrong forum Besides that there are plenty expensive cdplayers with excellent build quality that sound absolutely mediocre. The fun with DIY can be making a very good cdplayer with a cheap basic model and some hard earned knowledge.

I don't want to challenge you but your remark "miles better than any modded cheap CD player" is walking on thin ice.
Except the CD4SE is allegedly accepted to be a "giant killer".
(At ~ twice the cost of a budget CD player at the time.)

IMO if you want the best don't make it difficult for yourself.
You can improve a cheap CD player, this I'm not arguing.
But you can't IMO mod a basic CD player into the "ultimate".

What I'm suggesting is take a good / very good CD player and
adding mods that should improve matters is surely easier than
trying to take a cheap (but more to the point average design)
CD player to somewhere it will eventually refuse to go.

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Old 1st June 2004, 11:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by sreten

IMO if you want the best don't make it difficult for yourself.
You can improve a cheap CD player, this I'm not arguing.
But you can't IMO mod a basic CD player into the "ultimate".
Who said so?!
You should take a listen to my old Marantz CD52 SE with internal TDA1543 NOS Dac and dedicated trafo/PSU.
And Tent clock.

Well, yes, it's useless to loose much time on a player with a bitstream Dac (like my Marantz), but you can easily do something very special out of it.
THIS is giant killer, miles ahead of your BUDGET Cambridge CD4SE.
And I spent much less money than you, with all this.

Deam it, these days people use "giant-killer" and "high-end" too easilly, banalizing this words.
You haven't heard anything yet.
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Old 2nd June 2004, 12:27 AM   #13
Fin is offline Fin
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Quote:
Originally posted by carlosfm
You should take a listen to my old Marantz CD52 SE with internal TDA1543 NOS Dac and dedicated trafo/PSU.
And Tent clock.

Well, yes, it's useless to loose much time on a player with a bitstream Dac (like my Marantz), but you can easily do something very special out of it.
I wonder what the results would be like if the same level of attention was given to the original Bitstream DAC????
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Old 2nd June 2004, 01:10 AM   #14
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by carlosfm
THIS is giant killer, miles ahead of your BUDGET Cambridge CD4SE.
And I spent much less money than you, with all this.
Unlikely for both cases, my CD4SE is completely standard.

I think its very good, but reputation is its outstanding.

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Old 2nd June 2004, 03:28 AM   #15
Fin is offline Fin
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Default Cost vs benefit

Quote:
Originally posted by sreten
Mods improve matters but there's no way you can expect
to be able to bypass total high quality build practises.

You can't turn a cheap CD player into a giant killer.
What are those "high quality build practices"?
And
Who said anything about "bypassing" them?

Looking at Kuei Yang Wang's recommendations, I don't see any evidence of short-cuts. Every aspect of the player's build/design is addressed.


Quote:
Originally posted by sreten
I simply don't care. My bog standard Cambridge Audio
CD4SE is miles better than any modded cheap CD player,
tubes added or not, and as far as I'm concerned thats it.
How do you know this?

Quote:
Originally posted by sreten
Except the CD4SE is allegedly accepted to be a "giant killer".
(At ~ twice the cost of a budget CD player at the time.)
"Allegededly accepted whom"?
A "giant killer" at twice the cost of a budget CDP???
Is this a contradiction?
The giants that it is killing must be even more expensive. How did it manage to do this? - By somehow bypassing the "high quality build practices" of the very expensive machines??



Quote:
Originally posted by sreten
IMO if you want the best don't make it difficult for yourself.
You can improve a cheap CD player, this I'm not arguing.
But you can't IMO mod a basic CD player into the "ultimate".
What is "the best" and how do you know when you've got it?

Doing that which is difficult is what this forum is all about. For most of us, there is a certain satisfaction in taking a machine with humble beginnings and turning it into something much better. We are not bypassing high quality build practices - we are trying to identify the short-cuts and cost cutting that the manufacturer has made, and then address those items.


Quote:
Originally posted by sreten
What I'm suggesting is take a good / very good CD player and
adding mods that should improve matters is surely easier than
trying to take a cheap (but more to the point average design)
CD player to somewhere it will eventually refuse to go.
How does one know that the designer of the more expensive CDP has got it right? These players are still built to a price point and will still be compromised in some way. Yes, the more expensive machine may sound better than the unmodded budget one - but once the modding process starts, a lot more innovative ideas and best sounding or engineering practices can be implemented in the more basic models. For instance, a mid priced CDP may have some reasonable quality componentry or sections. It is less likely that you would rip these out to replace them with the best options. If you do rip them out, then you have wasted you money in the first place by paying for their inclusion in your CDP. It is also possible that the more expensive machines rely more heavily on the selection of specific components and less on the critical layout.
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Old 2nd June 2004, 09:18 AM   #16
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
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Forunately for all of us, the designer of the CD4SE seems keener on promoting DIY modding than Sretin.

Actually, the CD4SE was not really suitable for upgrading (electronically) as it was already extensively 'modded', hence the excellent sound quality. Much better for a DIYer to start with something like the CD723 which is basic and cheap!

As ever the last words should be 'each to his (or her) own!'
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Old 2nd June 2004, 10:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fin

I wonder what the results would be like if the same level of attention was given to the original Bitstream DAC????

Of course it was.
And I have two independent RCA outs on the player, I can even A/B.
There's no comparison between a bitstream Dac, the better that it may be, and a good multibit Dac.
Yes, the TDA1543 is good.
Forget the specs, well done it's very good.

Bitstream Dacs always sound undynamic to me.
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Old 2nd June 2004, 10:59 AM   #18
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hmmm......

I don't know why I'm being given a hard time for trying to answer
the original question, and after all these are my opinions, not
statements of absolute fact.

If you think differently fine, they are my considered opinions.


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Old 2nd June 2004, 12:47 PM   #19
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
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I'm not trying to give anybody a hard time! Life does that well enough for all of us.

But the original question was how could the CD723 be modified to sound better. You introduced the subject of starting off with a 'better' product. That's fine if the person asking the question was enquiring about how to get a good CDP from scratch. But he already has his CD723 and has spent time and money on it.

For my part, I was just saying that having heard the CD4SE and a modified CD723, I would prefer to go with the CD723 from a modders point of view.

If I just wanted to have a really good sounding CDP without opening the case, I would take your suggestion and try to hunt out a CD4SE although they are rare as hens teeth and I doubt any owners are prepared to sell theirs - would you?

I also speak from experience in saying that the CD4SE is not a good CDP for modding!

I greatly respect your vast knowledge of speaker building and if you came on a thread about speakers and put me right, I wouldn't think that you were giving me a hard time
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Old 2nd June 2004, 12:58 PM   #20
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Unfortunately, the sad news is that if you want a really good sounding CDP without opening the case (can you resist? ), you'll have to spend much more money than that CD4SE costs.
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