Yesterday, we (4 of us) finally have time to do some listening tests on:
TDA1541A
TDA1541A S1
TDA1541A S2 (a real one, not a fake
)
in my modified NOS CD960.
The tests were done blind, so needed to teach my GF to how to pull and insert the TDA1541As, that was very very scary
The sound:
In conclusion, the normal chip has the most energy, the S2 is the softest, S1 is in the middle. Texture details were pretty much the same.
For pop music, the votes were divided, 2 of us prefered the S2 version and one liked the normal version, the final one liked the S1.
For jazz music, again the votes were divided, normal and S2 received 1 vote each, except S1 received 2.
For classical music, 2 prefered the S1 version and 1 liked the normal version. The final one couldn't decide between normal and S2.
So in summary, the score line is:
.....................Normal......S1.....S2
Pop...................1............1.......2
Jazz..................1.............2......1
Classical..........1.5...........2.....0.5
---------------------------------------------
Total................3.5..........5......3.5
As you can see, the results were a bit of surprise for us
, we thought that the S2 should win hands down, but I guess you just never know what will happen in blind listening tests.
So "in our system" with "our ears", overall we prefer the S1. Of course, this is by no means conclusive.
Wouldn't it be nice that one can switch between normal, S1 and S2 on the fly ...
P.S. Just a side note, to be perfectly honest, when the tests were done blind, the difference in sound was quite small, I really would not lose any sleep over it, whether my system uses a normal, S1 or S2 version. But for now, S1 will stay.
TDA1541A
TDA1541A S1
TDA1541A S2 (a real one, not a fake
)in my modified NOS CD960.
The tests were done blind, so needed to teach my GF to how to pull and insert the TDA1541As, that was very very scary
The sound:
In conclusion, the normal chip has the most energy, the S2 is the softest, S1 is in the middle. Texture details were pretty much the same.
For pop music, the votes were divided, 2 of us prefered the S2 version and one liked the normal version, the final one liked the S1.
For jazz music, again the votes were divided, normal and S2 received 1 vote each, except S1 received 2.
For classical music, 2 prefered the S1 version and 1 liked the normal version. The final one couldn't decide between normal and S2.
So in summary, the score line is:
.....................Normal......S1.....S2
Pop...................1............1.......2
Jazz..................1.............2......1
Classical..........1.5...........2.....0.5
---------------------------------------------
Total................3.5..........5......3.5
As you can see, the results were a bit of surprise for us
, we thought that the S2 should win hands down, but I guess you just never know what will happen in blind listening tests.So "in our system" with "our ears", overall we prefer the S1. Of course, this is by no means conclusive.
Wouldn't it be nice that one can switch between normal, S1 and S2 on the fly ...
P.S. Just a side note, to be perfectly honest, when the tests were done blind, the difference in sound was quite small, I really would not lose any sleep over it, whether my system uses a normal, S1 or S2 version. But for now, S1 will stay.
Hi pop11,
Thank you for going to the trouble of organizing what seems a real valid test. I did something simmilar, allthough not quiet as valid; me and a friend listening to the normal, S1 and S2 (I did the swappping so not blind for me atleast); only 1 piece of music (Buena Vista Social Club) .. It seemed that there was no significant difference.... we could not make up our mind.. Is my system not up to tests like this? I think it is, as a comparison with a CirrusLogic Evaluation board of a 96KHZ/24bit DAC showed.. the CirrusLogic was clearly superior....
Regards.
Thijs
PS
Don't ask for proof if I say I cann't hear a difference.......
Thank you for going to the trouble of organizing what seems a real valid test. I did something simmilar, allthough not quiet as valid; me and a friend listening to the normal, S1 and S2 (I did the swappping so not blind for me atleast); only 1 piece of music (Buena Vista Social Club) .. It seemed that there was no significant difference.... we could not make up our mind.. Is my system not up to tests like this? I think it is, as a comparison with a CirrusLogic Evaluation board of a 96KHZ/24bit DAC showed.. the CirrusLogic was clearly superior....
Regards.
Thijs
PS
Don't ask for proof if I say I cann't hear a difference.......
I think I can confirm that the levels of selection is not one way road of improvement.
The TDA1541A/S1 (sourced locally, I believe it is genuine) was somewhat more refined but was also more congested than TDA1541A (which came from Reichelt about one year ago). Also, with S1 I was pushed to walk a bit around the room to catch some bass notes (which indeed has more to do with my room but tells something about the chip). Non A in which was stamped R1 (sourced locally, no idea what it is in fact), was least congested, actually was somewhat hollow.
My preference among these is TDA1541A from Reichelt. Method used for the test is leavening of the chip in for a day or two. After that I asked myself have I enjoyed, have I experienced something nice, was I irritated and overwrought, and do I in my life still want to listen to the music or not. I have done this test alone.
Pedja
The TDA1541A/S1 (sourced locally, I believe it is genuine) was somewhat more refined but was also more congested than TDA1541A (which came from Reichelt about one year ago). Also, with S1 I was pushed to walk a bit around the room to catch some bass notes (which indeed has more to do with my room but tells something about the chip). Non A in which was stamped R1 (sourced locally, no idea what it is in fact), was least congested, actually was somewhat hollow.
My preference among these is TDA1541A from Reichelt. Method used for the test is leavening of the chip in for a day or two. After that I asked myself have I enjoyed, have I experienced something nice, was I irritated and overwrought, and do I in my life still want to listen to the music or not. I have done this test alone.
Pedja
Attachments
test again
Just for fun, I rerun the test again, only me and my GF this time, but BOTH sighted and blind tests.
In sighted test, I prefer "S2" every time , it seems that the "S2" is more refine than the others, everything just a little better.
Then came the blind test again (my GF was getting good at pulling and plugging those 1541s ), the difference in sound quality was again fairly small. In fact, a few times I thought I was surely hearing a "S2", in fact it was either a "S1" or a "normal".
The final choice really come down to the materials played. For jazz and classical, I liked the "S1" or "normal" a bit better, for pop, I prefer the "S2" a bit more.
Damn it, to be real honest, I think I am just happy to use either one of them, "normal, S1 or S2"
Just for fun, I rerun the test again, only me and my GF this time, but BOTH sighted and blind tests.
In sighted test, I prefer "S2" every time
, it seems that the "S2" is more refine than the others, everything just a little better. Then came the blind test again (my GF was getting good at pulling and plugging those 1541s
), the difference in sound quality was again fairly small. In fact, a few times I thought I was surely hearing a "S2", in fact it was either a "S1" or a "normal".The final choice really come down to the materials played. For jazz and classical, I liked the "S1" or "normal" a bit better, for pop, I prefer the "S2" a bit more.
Damn it, to be real honest, I think I am just happy to use either one of them, "normal, S1 or S2"
Heh, what you expect is often what you get. If the S2 is supposed to be a better chip, and you know you're listening to it, you'll think it will sound better. And it's hard to listen to something without specific expectations, for good or bad. Gotta love psychosomatic effects. ^_^
I'm almost glad that the blind tests seem to have the result you've found...that way once I build a 1541A DAC I don't have to spend an extra arm or two to get an S2.
I'm almost glad that the blind tests seem to have the result you've found...that way once I build a 1541A DAC I don't have to spend an extra arm or two to get an S2.
Thanks for the support
Seems that there is increasing interest on the "S1" chip and I have received quite a few emails asking where can one found some "S1" .
I got mine from cricklewood electronics in UK a while ago at about ~US$15 each , but now they no longer have any stock.
I guess "S1" is still around, especially in those Philips/Marantz service centres, try your luck.
Or elib could remark some of his "S2" to "S1" and sell them as "S1"
Seems that there is increasing interest on the "S1" chip and I have received quite a few emails asking where can one found some "S1"
.I got mine from cricklewood electronics in UK a while ago at about ~US$15 each
, but now they no longer have any stock. I guess "S1" is still around, especially in those Philips/Marantz service centres, try your luck.
Or elib could remark some of his "S2" to "S1" and sell them as "S1"
Re: Thanks for the support
I would never trade my S2 chip for S1. Frankly I was not impressed with S1 at all an at times it seemed like the original, no crown version, that came with my player sounded beter than S1.
S2 chip however, seems to be in a completely different league. I can spot it right away.
But my preference is not a subject o blind testing though. My senses work different then, so I don't even try it.
pop11 said:
Or elib could remark some of his "S2" to "S1" and sell them as "S1"
I would never trade my S2 chip for S1. Frankly I was not impressed with S1 at all an at times it seemed like the original, no crown version, that came with my player sounded beter than S1.
S2 chip however, seems to be in a completely different league. I can spot it right away.
But my preference is not a subject o blind testing though. My senses work different then, so I don't even try it.
You might have been kidding, but this might also give people an impression that S1 is indeed better than S2. It is not. Whoever tried S2 chip doesn't come back to S1 version.
S1 is still rough sounding and carries a lot signature from regualr version. Signature of S2 presents much more refinement, IMO, and it just sounds different.
S1 is still rough sounding and carries a lot signature from regualr version. Signature of S2 presents much more refinement, IMO, and it just sounds different.
I do understand you like "S2" more, which is perfectly fine and reasonable too.
To us, after the blind listening test, to our ears, "S1" is better, or should I say "S1" is better preferred by us in our system. This is a fact to us and we cannot deny it, but I guess everyone understand that every pair of ears are different and everyone is different.... but we are the ones who have tried "S2" and didn't like it and came back to "S1" ....
Hope you understand ....
I guess everyone just have to keep an open mind ....
I'm waking this subject up from 12 years of hypersleep because I would like to add my own experience - it might interest someone who is still into TDA1541A.
I have a S2, 4 ordinary A chips from Taiwan that were made on the same production line as S2, an ordinary Dutch A and an old non-A. (Not bragging, just saying. Well maybe a little...)
My DAC is a NOS DAC with a two-level cascading voltage regulation, polypropylene caps mounted directly on the underside of the chip and with DEM clock synchronized to BCK.
It actually sounds really good. I'm going to tweak it further (I2S attenuator, DEM reclock from BCK) when I find the time.
I listened to Kari Bremnes.
So I decided to listen to all my chips to hear if there is any difference:
1. TDA1541 non-A is not a contender really. It's only good enough to hook up to the TV.
2. Dutch old A sounds nice and alive but details seem a little smeared compared to Taiwanese chips.
3. Taiwanese As sound a bit more clinical than the Dutch, but more detailed.
4. S2 does sound the best of all. Even a bit more detail than with the Taiwan A chips and it sounds alive like the Dutch chip, maybe even more emotional because of all the detail.
I swapped all the chips in and out couple of times to be sure I'm hearing the same differences over and over - that I'm not imagining things.
To sum it up:
The difference between ordinary A chips (Dutch vs Taiwanese) is more or less the matter of taste, because it is not a very big difference. Implementation of the pcb or choice of the analog stage can make a bigger difference.
Non-A chip vs A chip is a noteably big difference.
About the same difference is between A chips and S2. It's noteable, even though A chips are very nice to listen to already. S2 is in a class of its own.
But I did notice that the Taiwanese chips were not all the same. One was much more like the S2 than the other 3. Still not quite the same, but similar enough.
bye.
I have a S2, 4 ordinary A chips from Taiwan that were made on the same production line as S2, an ordinary Dutch A and an old non-A. (Not bragging, just saying. Well maybe a little...)
My DAC is a NOS DAC with a two-level cascading voltage regulation, polypropylene caps mounted directly on the underside of the chip and with DEM clock synchronized to BCK.
It actually sounds really good. I'm going to tweak it further (I2S attenuator, DEM reclock from BCK) when I find the time.
I listened to Kari Bremnes.
So I decided to listen to all my chips to hear if there is any difference:
1. TDA1541 non-A is not a contender really. It's only good enough to hook up to the TV.
2. Dutch old A sounds nice and alive but details seem a little smeared compared to Taiwanese chips.
3. Taiwanese As sound a bit more clinical than the Dutch, but more detailed.
4. S2 does sound the best of all. Even a bit more detail than with the Taiwan A chips and it sounds alive like the Dutch chip, maybe even more emotional because of all the detail.
I swapped all the chips in and out couple of times to be sure I'm hearing the same differences over and over - that I'm not imagining things.
To sum it up:
The difference between ordinary A chips (Dutch vs Taiwanese) is more or less the matter of taste, because it is not a very big difference. Implementation of the pcb or choice of the analog stage can make a bigger difference.
Non-A chip vs A chip is a noteably big difference.
About the same difference is between A chips and S2. It's noteable, even though A chips are very nice to listen to already. S2 is in a class of its own.
But I did notice that the Taiwanese chips were not all the same. One was much more like the S2 than the other 3. Still not quite the same, but similar enough.
bye.
