Posted together...
So safety R was open but it isn't the physical impact itself that has done that, it is the impact causing a problem to occur that draws to much current. I suppose the next thing is to see what that resistor feeds and look for damage around that area.
All the above still applies
So safety R was open but it isn't the physical impact itself that has done that, it is the impact causing a problem to occur that draws to much current. I suppose the next thing is to see what that resistor feeds and look for damage around that area.
All the above still applies
Safety R maybe unrelated to accident...
The 'safety R' opened several days (and several on/off cycles) after that initial post-accident power-up (when I smelled, heard buzz, and noticed the TDA1541 was hot). Not sure whether it was weakened then??
During troubleshooting, I did have the unit assembled/disassembled several times, increasing the chances of me shorting something while probing. That R may have been totally unrelated to the accident.
The +10v rail (which Philips did not regulate; only rect. diodes and large-value rect. cap) powers servo stuff like motors. The +10v (along with -10v). power opamps and transistors that feed motors.
BTW: If you're curious, the entire SM is available here:
Marantz CD-60 - Manual - Compact Disc Player - HiFi Engine
Thx for your feedback!
The 'safety R' opened several days (and several on/off cycles) after that initial post-accident power-up (when I smelled, heard buzz, and noticed the TDA1541 was hot). Not sure whether it was weakened then??
During troubleshooting, I did have the unit assembled/disassembled several times, increasing the chances of me shorting something while probing. That R may have been totally unrelated to the accident.
The +10v rail (which Philips did not regulate; only rect. diodes and large-value rect. cap) powers servo stuff like motors. The +10v (along with -10v). power opamps and transistors that feed motors.
BTW: If you're curious, the entire SM is available here:
Marantz CD-60 - Manual - Compact Disc Player - HiFi Engine
Meant to ask ...
...if the laser power and/or laser focus were out-of-calibration, what would be some symptom?
Would the symptoms be like the ones I've described in this thread:
CD tries to start, goes into the focus and spin bwd/fwd routine (I think that routine is normal part of the firmware). But does not spin up for TOC and Playback.
I
...if the laser power and/or laser focus were out-of-calibration, what would be some symptom?
Would the symptoms be like the ones I've described in this thread:
CD tries to start, goes into the focus and spin bwd/fwd routine (I think that routine is normal part of the firmware). But does not spin up for TOC and Playback.
I
hello Hollowman,
check that the ribbon cable of the CDM4/19 is correctly attached to the mainboard, also check that all parts on the servo and drive part are ok (section below the power transformer). Usually you must fix the screw from the bottom of the case for the CDM, because otherwise the tray detection switch doesn#t work. i had a similar error, with the result that the CDM4/19 Laser was defect. Did you already check the faultfinding tree , in chapter 'Measurements and Adjustments'
check that the ribbon cable of the CDM4/19 is correctly attached to the mainboard, also check that all parts on the servo and drive part are ok (section below the power transformer). Usually you must fix the screw from the bottom of the case for the CDM, because otherwise the tray detection switch doesn#t work. i had a similar error, with the result that the CDM4/19 Laser was defect. Did you already check the faultfinding tree , in chapter 'Measurements and Adjustments'
On a normal functioning player the CD only spins once focus has been found. That means the laser has to light and the servo drive the lens to a point of focus. Once that happens the FOK (focus OK) command tells the servo to spin the disc to approximately the correct speed, at which point data coming off the disc can be used to compare against an internal reference (clock signal) to lock the speed exactly.
So with no disc in the tray, the platter motor should not spin.
A faulty pickup could generate a recognisable FOK signal only for the servo to throw a fit start doing strange things if the final data coming off the disc was marginal or poor in quality. Laser power being to high or to low can all do that but again, it wouldn't be the first suspect given the history of the player.
So with no disc in the tray, the platter motor should not spin.
A faulty pickup could generate a recognisable FOK signal only for the servo to throw a fit start doing strange things if the final data coming off the disc was marginal or poor in quality. Laser power being to high or to low can all do that but again, it wouldn't be the first suspect given the history of the player.
The tray detect button works. I checked that from day one.
Observing the weird startup routine, I noted that disk rotates COUNTERCLOCKWISE. This opposite of normal rotation.
Going thru the SM's Fault-Finding tree that the disk seed test produces
"faulty" results. The seed is "High" and its running counterclockwise.
I have to go thru the suggested culprits in the Tree.
For both the normal start up as well as the Service Menu speed test, I noticed the disk first just nudges to move clockwise, then bounces and goes reverse.
Observing the weird startup routine, I noted that disk rotates COUNTERCLOCKWISE. This opposite of normal rotation.
Going thru the SM's Fault-Finding tree that the disk seed test produces
"faulty" results. The seed is "High" and its running counterclockwise.
I have to go thru the suggested culprits in the Tree.
For both the normal start up as well as the Service Menu speed test, I noticed the disk first just nudges to move clockwise, then bounces and goes reverse.
Last edited:
No luck thus far...
I even replaced the NJM -- it tested good but I replaced anyway.
For the driver trans., I ohm'd them out in circuit and they seem to be okay.
I have not thoroughly tested the TCA0372. This device (a 16-pin "power opamp" that require +10v) sits between the NJM and the turntable motor itself.
There is a weird X24C16 device in the motor area. It looks like an opamp but it seems to be some kind of EPROM device (most of its pins are grounded). One pin of this X24C16 device does connect to the NJM, and another pin goes somewhere to the display board.
A side issue: I have a Philips CD60, not a Marantz CD60. They are supposed to be identical, but the schematic proves they are not, albeit subtly. I don't have a "Philips CD60" schematic. Moreover, I'm not sure the PDF found online are the original (complete) schematics, or just pieced together documents.
I did quickly go thru some of this.
I even replaced the NJM -- it tested good but I replaced anyway.
For the driver trans., I ohm'd them out in circuit and they seem to be okay.
I have not thoroughly tested the TCA0372. This device (a 16-pin "power opamp" that require +10v) sits between the NJM and the turntable motor itself.
There is a weird X24C16 device in the motor area. It looks like an opamp but it seems to be some kind of EPROM device (most of its pins are grounded). One pin of this X24C16 device does connect to the NJM, and another pin goes somewhere to the display board.
A side issue: I have a Philips CD60, not a Marantz CD60. They are supposed to be identical, but the schematic proves they are not, albeit subtly. I don't have a "Philips CD60" schematic. Moreover, I'm not sure the PDF found online are the original (complete) schematics, or just pieced together documents.
Last edited:
Hello hollowman,
You have a lot of suggestions. Looking at the first post, I assume that is where you are now?
Do not adjust any controls whatever you do. It is possible that the turntable has slid down the motor shaft and is now too low. The turntable height is a critical adjustment that is normally set with a height jig or a digital caliper. There are other ways that a technician would know. I highly doubt you had a semiconductor failure from a drop. You can certainly create one poking around or by pulling chips.
On early machines there were double sided PC boards that were not plated through. Philips used "griblets" which are soldered on both sides. These can crack and become disconnected. A technician should do this, but what you want to do is to remove all the existing solder on these. Once cleaned up, apply some liquid solder flux for electronic work, then resolder using a thin diameter solder wire on both sides. Do not make a blob of solder. The sides should be concave.
There are many of these things. On the top you can see the as copper circles with 4 radials going out to the ground plane or a trace. Just work carefully under a good light so you can get them all. Make sure you get the old solder and clean the area before attempting to resolder them.
I had Philips training on those things. There are other possible faults but it would have to be on my bench to go any further. I'm sure you have someone closer that is skilled with CD repair. They should also have the test jig for setting gain (I do).
-Chris
You have a lot of suggestions. Looking at the first post, I assume that is where you are now?
Do not adjust any controls whatever you do. It is possible that the turntable has slid down the motor shaft and is now too low. The turntable height is a critical adjustment that is normally set with a height jig or a digital caliper. There are other ways that a technician would know. I highly doubt you had a semiconductor failure from a drop. You can certainly create one poking around or by pulling chips.
On early machines there were double sided PC boards that were not plated through. Philips used "griblets" which are soldered on both sides. These can crack and become disconnected. A technician should do this, but what you want to do is to remove all the existing solder on these. Once cleaned up, apply some liquid solder flux for electronic work, then resolder using a thin diameter solder wire on both sides. Do not make a blob of solder. The sides should be concave.
There are many of these things. On the top you can see the as copper circles with 4 radials going out to the ground plane or a trace. Just work carefully under a good light so you can get them all. Make sure you get the old solder and clean the area before attempting to resolder them.
I had Philips training on those things. There are other possible faults but it would have to be on my bench to go any further. I'm sure you have someone closer that is skilled with CD repair. They should also have the test jig for setting gain (I do).
-Chris
Update ...
Thx for all the feedback!
If you want to follow along, download the Marantz CD60 schematic from hifiengine.com.
Marantz CD-60 - Manual - Compact Disc Player - HiFi Engine
Unfortunately, its not text searchable. And (as noted earlier) it's subtly different than my Philips.
Anyway...
I re-did the the Service Position tests via the Service Mode (Pwr+Play+Stop/CM). Same as before: All tests seem to be okay except that the turntable spins bwd (and high speed, but only in Test mode)
Sigh! This one is a stumper.
Please have a look at that schematic and see if you can solve the puzzle.
Thx for all the feedback!
If you want to follow along, download the Marantz CD60 schematic from hifiengine.com.
Marantz CD-60 - Manual - Compact Disc Player - HiFi Engine
Unfortunately, its not text searchable. And (as noted earlier) it's subtly different than my Philips.
Anyway...
There are two TCA0372 opamps in the CD60 (these 1-amp opamps drive servos, like the turntable, radial drive and focus drive). To test, I swapped them ... and the problem remains!
I re-did the the Service Position tests via the Service Mode (Pwr+Play+Stop/CM). Same as before: All tests seem to be okay except that the turntable spins bwd (and high speed, but only in Test mode)
Sigh! This one is a stumper.
Please have a look at that schematic and see if you can solve the puzzle.
Service Mode reveals ...
Also (as noted earlier), the Service Mode tests reveal the problems: turntable motors spins fast and it spins bwd (but only in SM; in regular mode, a few slow/wobbly bwd turns)
It behaves the same w/ or w/o a CD inserted.
Also (as noted earlier), the Service Mode tests reveal the problems: turntable motors spins fast and it spins bwd (but only in SM; in regular mode, a few slow/wobbly bwd turns)
Hello hollowman,
Yes, it spins backwards because it can't read the CD or TOC properly. You seem to have a focus lock, but not good enough to read the CD.
Stop with the ICs already. They were not the original problem to begin with. I forgot that this was a later unit without the griblets. These had bad jumper connections.
Have you resoldered the jumpers? Doing this (all of them) will probably fix your unit. But as I can't have it on my bench, this is my best guess from what you have posted. So, roll up your shirt sleeves and get busy soldering those jumpers. Remember, the player stopped working after a mechanical shock. The ICs are next to immune from damage unless you crack the PCB and the IC. These heads were fairly robust as has been noted before. About the only things you could possible damage would be the solder joints around heavy components like a transformer, or because the board flexed a bit, weak solder connections. Philips has had a history of bad solder connections over the years in their CD players. I can't speak to the rest of their products as I had a steady diet of their CD players.
-Chris
Yes, it spins backwards because it can't read the CD or TOC properly. You seem to have a focus lock, but not good enough to read the CD.
Stop with the ICs already. They were not the original problem to begin with. I forgot that this was a later unit without the griblets. These had bad jumper connections.
Have you resoldered the jumpers? Doing this (all of them) will probably fix your unit. But as I can't have it on my bench, this is my best guess from what you have posted. So, roll up your shirt sleeves and get busy soldering those jumpers. Remember, the player stopped working after a mechanical shock. The ICs are next to immune from damage unless you crack the PCB and the IC. These heads were fairly robust as has been noted before. About the only things you could possible damage would be the solder joints around heavy components like a transformer, or because the board flexed a bit, weak solder connections. Philips has had a history of bad solder connections over the years in their CD players. I can't speak to the rest of their products as I had a steady diet of their CD players.
-Chris
I re-soldered all the copper(component)-side gribblets, and a few (but not all) on the solder side.
No difference.
Not sure if/when I'll get around to all the jumpers.
Days ago, I did a fairly long inspection -- with strong light and magnifier -- and found no issue (visible cracks, etc.)
As I noted in the OP, the unit didn't fall very far (about 1ft.) on to a matted/carpeted floor. No plastic part of chassis cracked.
Of course, there were the initial start-up symptoms.
No difference.
Not sure if/when I'll get around to all the jumpers.
Days ago, I did a fairly long inspection -- with strong light and magnifier -- and found no issue (visible cracks, etc.)
As I noted in the OP, the unit didn't fall very far (about 1ft.) on to a matted/carpeted floor. No plastic part of chassis cracked.
Of course, there were the initial start-up symptoms.
Next idea, try to find a spare CDM4/19. You will find them for example in several Technics CD-Player like the SL-PG340A/440A at ebay, That is what i did, when i couldn't make my Philips CD584 bring back to life. There is also a dutch site for the TDA1541, which gives some information, what player contains a CDM 4/19.
Been there, done that ...
Philips (Marantz) CD-60 not spinning up
You missed this earlier in this thread:
Philips (Marantz) CD-60 not spinning up
Hi hollowman,
Of course it won't work until you find that one problem. I'm afraid you'll have to solder the rest of the jumpers before you can move on to anything else. The more you pull components, the closer you are to introducing another fault or breaking something so it won't play. I realise it seems very boring and pointless now. My first one to repair I felt similarly until I got the one that caused all the trouble. It was then that I discovered that a joint can look perfect and still be bad.
-Chris
Of course it won't work until you find that one problem. I'm afraid you'll have to solder the rest of the jumpers before you can move on to anything else. The more you pull components, the closer you are to introducing another fault or breaking something so it won't play. I realise it seems very boring and pointless now. My first one to repair I felt similarly until I got the one that caused all the trouble. It was then that I discovered that a joint can look perfect and still be bad.
-Chris
I think your strategy is probably the wisest option. And a break in a trace or jumper is the most logical culprit.
Question:
Have you (or anyone reading this) experience the same (or very similar) behavior (i.e., bwd wobbly spin, fast bwd spin in Service Mode) because of broken traces/leads or poor solder joint?
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.