As I am studying the CD-PRO2 module kit, like the one built by Peter Daniel and Brian Bell, I am wondering:
What's fundermental advantages that CD transport provides that is lacking in regular CD player, or even cheaper DVD player? as the price is 10 times more....
I already have the Sony SACD player with my Audio Alchemy DTI Pro 32 (jitter reduction) and Perpetual P3A DAC, will CD-PRO2 CD Transport (DIY kit) make my CD sounds even significantly better?
Thomas
(DIY is fun, but to spend lots of money and the sound is still the same isn't fun at all....)
What's fundermental advantages that CD transport provides that is lacking in regular CD player, or even cheaper DVD player? as the price is 10 times more....
I already have the Sony SACD player with my Audio Alchemy DTI Pro 32 (jitter reduction) and Perpetual P3A DAC, will CD-PRO2 CD Transport (DIY kit) make my CD sounds even significantly better?
Thomas
(DIY is fun, but to spend lots of money and the sound is still the same isn't fun at all....)
It all depends on implementation, PS and chassis.
For instance, my Marantz CD-94 and cheap Dynaco player sounded better today than my copper frame CD-Pro transport. I was quite surprised by that
I'm taking power to the display and control logic from 5V digital supply to the transport, so maybe this affect the sound somehow? But just using CD-Pro as a mechanism, doesn't automatically guarantee the perfect sound
I'm also having doubts if copper is actually good choice for the transport frame. It seemed to be overdamped and doesn't produce enough air and space.
For instance, my Marantz CD-94 and cheap Dynaco player sounded better today than my copper frame CD-Pro transport. I was quite surprised by that
I'm taking power to the display and control logic from 5V digital supply to the transport, so maybe this affect the sound somehow? But just using CD-Pro as a mechanism, doesn't automatically guarantee the perfect sound
I'm also having doubts if copper is actually good choice for the transport frame. It seemed to be overdamped and doesn't produce enough air and space.
CD Pro 2's qualities are exxagerated. A slightly modified older cdplayer with swingarm can be better and is definitely cheaper. Also the newer Sony ( DVD ) mechanics are more interesting performancewise.
I've heard them some times now, even in extreme setups but a standard cdplayer ( that was cheaper than just the CD Pro 2 ) outperformed it.
I don't know what it is with CD Pro 2 and its popularity !?! It is nothing to write home about really and the price is not attractive either to say the least. Probably the "Pro" in its name does it all
Also a pcb for power supply is not available. If one persists on DIYing a cdplayer it maybe makes some sense to put mucho $ in it ( otherwise I really don't see the point in going through all that hassle while a reasonably simple ready made cdplayer can do better ).
I think you overemphasise the choice of material against the quality of that particular mechanics Peter. It should be worth the chassis you made ( which I doubt obviously ).
I've heard them some times now, even in extreme setups but a standard cdplayer ( that was cheaper than just the CD Pro 2 ) outperformed it.
I don't know what it is with CD Pro 2 and its popularity !?! It is nothing to write home about really and the price is not attractive either to say the least. Probably the "Pro" in its name does it all
Also a pcb for power supply is not available. If one persists on DIYing a cdplayer it maybe makes some sense to put mucho $ in it ( otherwise I really don't see the point in going through all that hassle while a reasonably simple ready made cdplayer can do better ).
I think you overemphasise the choice of material against the quality of that particular mechanics Peter. It should be worth the chassis you made ( which I doubt obviously
).jean paul, the power supply is easy to make without PCB. Give me a CDM 4 or other swingarm with I2S output and DSA control, and i will use that instead.
Else i belive sound is not make in the transport but in and behind the DAC. If not so there is something wrong.
In fact the swingarm makes less mechanical noise than the CD PRO2.
Else i belive sound is not make in the transport but in and behind the DAC. If not so there is something wrong.
In fact the swingarm makes less mechanical noise than the CD PRO2.
be carefull with statements like that, some idiots started war with statements like that.
a) psychology
b) one of both is wrong or much older than the other.
In your case i suspect a) is more likely: Your conclusions about something sound *** (set a audiophile adjective here) come very fast and very confident, but without reasonable rationals. They fall down to earth like axioms.
for b)
the older the higher BLER. The transport will not make sound, but could deliver suboptimal information because it reads more errors it does not correct optimal because they are to much. But influence of the CD quality (clean and new vs. dirty and old surface) will be higher than influence of transport.
In generall BLER will be very good with CD PRO2 compared to other transports.
He http://www.angelfire.com/music4/audio_visions/know.html says:
good point.
There may be something wrong with your belive system, or should i say autosuggestion system.
all the information you post is not any better than a belive. Your belive.
Since when its YOUR transport? I use mine since middle of 2002.
I added about one third of the posting#4 this "personal believe" you seem not to tolerate. (like i would call LED influences CD sound a lie)
You start a religios flamewar.
Since when its YOUR transport? I use mine since middle of 2002.
I added about one third of the posting#4 this "personal believe" you seem not to tolerate. (like i would call LED influences CD sound a lie)
You start a religios flamewar.
till said:
Transport is equally important as DAC choice. Believing such things is not a very scientific approach. Believing is done in church as we say here.
If the same DAC is connected to 2 different transports with different results it is obvious how transports influence sonical results. CDM4 is one of the few that accepts nearly 4 mm dropouts on cd's. You sold me the CDM4 spares so I presume you have kept some yourself for experiments !?!? I don't bother using DSA as I use ready made cdplayers ( that outperform CD Pro 2 so why should I bother ? ).
As I mentioned Sony makes some nice DVD transports too that are well designed and are usable for audio. CDM4 is not the holy grail but a well designed but old mechanics with good results ( with low investments ). Ideal for the ones on a budget or those that start with this hobby. BTW I2S is almost standard with Philips cdplayers. My motivation for using cheap but good transports is simple: they offer more value for money. I am not into high end or the mystic that comes with it.
I just mentioned the lack of power supply pcb as it'll add to the cost ( and looks FWIW ) of the already expensive CD Pro 2.
As always it's in the details.
I think popularity of CD Pro greatly depends on the fact that it is one of the few readily available transports that come with an interface board. Actually, I only know about Steinmusic that sell other transport, otherwise I wouldn't know where to look for.
My first CD-Pro was better than stock CD-94, but after I did some mods to Marantz, the difference wasn't that obvious. Now, I added Tent clock to Marantz and cleaned the supply and it seems to be even better. Adding a DAC directly, was actually the biggest improvement. Outboard DAC will never sound that clean. The resolution is simply amazing. Finally my Marantz was in a same leauge than modified Shanling, and some listeners actually preferred it to Chinese player.
Those results, make me even less excited about building a CD-Pro transport from scratch. It is actually both very expensive and hard to achieve aestetically pleasing look, similar to well built commercial units.
But I still think, that properly implementing CD-Pro transport, is not an easy task, but when done properly, it should outperform a regular player. But it would require some mods into the original board that come with a player, or building a new one.
My first CD-Pro was better than stock CD-94, but after I did some mods to Marantz, the difference wasn't that obvious. Now, I added Tent clock to Marantz and cleaned the supply and it seems to be even better. Adding a DAC directly, was actually the biggest improvement. Outboard DAC will never sound that clean. The resolution is simply amazing. Finally my Marantz was in a same leauge than modified Shanling, and some listeners actually preferred it to Chinese player.
Those results, make me even less excited about building a CD-Pro transport from scratch. It is actually both very expensive and hard to achieve aestetically pleasing look, similar to well built commercial units.
But I still think, that properly implementing CD-Pro transport, is not an easy task, but when done properly, it should outperform a regular player. But it would require some mods into the original board that come with a player, or building a new one.
of corse, but you wont belive how many mails i got from people all over the world asking for them.
I would like to use them, but lack the electronics the CD PRO supplys.
There is reason to use a unit like the CD PRO2, in case you don´t want to be limited to those TDAs you use, and in case you want to build your own CD player. Sound, as we see, is more a question of religion, belive, and personal perception. I avoid sound as criterium.
I for example, want something like that: http://home.tu-clausthal.de/~tpa/CDP/CDP.gif
with 2*AD1865 as balanced DAC. I also want to try it with TDA1541A, but how else to connect the AD chip?
And there is only CDM12 or CD PRO2 on the market to do so, as far as i know.
This of corse, is no reason of sound but of interest in the experiment. I don´t say it has to sound bad, but i don´t expect it to be better in any special way than what i allready have.
I don´t belive all the people on this board doing exessive diy because of aim for better audiophile sound. That may be what they belive, but not necessarily its also true. In case they would aim ultimative sound, they would not spend time at this board or with scope and soldering iron, but in concert halls.
How did you say?
, yea and its ony some diy. Not to take too serios.
jean-paul said:What always wonders me is why they implemented such a mediocre DAC on the board ?!?
CDROM use ??
My future mods to CD-Pro will include removal of on board DAC (I already did it with my first player) and putting in that spot TDA1543. The I2S lines will be picked up directly from the board (not the sockets) and whole DAC will be on the original CD Pro board. The PS will come from the battery.
In the meantime, this is how my Marantz looks after final mods. Two additional items are Siemens MKV caps for coupling and battery for the DAC. I used original 13.8V DAC supply to power the battery with a switch in a back, that disconnects that supply from battery.
Listening to this player as it's now, is actually a religious experience. For the first time in years, I could actually listen to the whole The Wall CD, otherwise it was always track 3 & 4.
TDA1543 can really sound amazingly. It is a bit dry, but in all other aspects it's very good.
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till said:
I don't use only *those TDA's * if that's important and I don't do excessive DIYing anymore as I have a life too ( thank God for that ! ). You are right about the importance of audio, it isn't. I did quite excessive DIYing in the past and it did not make me very happy. I became aware of the religious aspects you mention and snobism so I quit for some years. In fact I do more work for others than for my own concerning audio. The things you mention make very clear why women don't have this hobby as much as men do
Please don't avoid sound as a criterium as I've heard technically excellent systems that took my appetite for playing cd's away. Sound is *the* criterium what all is about if you start with this although I see your points like perception. BTW it is also unsatisfying to see this hobby just from a "scientific" approach by spending more time in front of measurement gear ( while you could have relaxed by listening a good cd ! ).
How many times I've sold excellent sounding diy DAC's just because they were finished ? It is also the joy of creating things that can be the drive for doing this.
It really isn't all that important. It is very refreshing to enjoy a miniset now and then that sounds OK. It makes one wonder why to invest so much time while people can enjoy music on cheap systems and me soldering hours and not feeling satisfied...
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