Modding Marantz CD6000 - KI vs OSE Differences

[bs]

Hi all. Im planning to undertake the modification of a Marantz CD6000 CD player, as per a number of threads on this site.
I am fortunate enough to own both the CD6000OSE Limited Edition, and CD6000KI versions of the player.

At this stage, I plan to upgrade the KI, hoping to achieve a best possible result with this player, and use the OSE a a reference.

To start with, I thought I would see what the differences are, and post them, both for general interest, and because I want help!

The functions listed () are assumed! Im only learning!

General:
Transformer replaced with toroidal model
Chassis copper plated

Components:
Part OSE Part KI Part
(12v PSU Reservoir caps)
2131 1000u 35V Elna for Hi-Fi 2200u 35V Elna Silmic
2132 1000u 35V Elna for Hi-Fi 2200u 35V Elna Silmic
(12v post reg smoothing caps)
2115 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 220u 16V Elna Silmic
2116 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 220u 16V Elna Silmic
(12v bypass caps for output HDAM)
2223 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 100u 16V Elna Cerafine
2224 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 100u 16V Elna Cerafine
2225 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 100u 16V Elna Cerafine
2226 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 100u 16V Elna Cerafine
(5v DAC bypass caps)
2311 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 470u 16V Elna Silmic
2312 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 470u 16V Elna Silmic
2316 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 470u 16V Elna Silmic
2317 470u 16V Elna Std (RA2) 470u 16V Elna Silmic
(I/V filter caps?????!!!)
2211, 2212, 2715, 2716, 2717, 2718, 2719, 2720, 2721, 2722, 2723, 2724, 2725, 2726 - and 2213, 2214, 2217, 2218
These are blue and marked "101J 100" in the OSE.
In the KI they are green, smaller, and marked "Audio 101J N" in the KI.

Can anyone assist identifying what type of capacitors these are??
I will attempt to post photos.


Cheers

[bs]

Attached is a photo of the capacitors in the OSE player.

[bs]

Attached is a photo of the capacitors in the KI player.
Can anyone please assist with indentifying the difference in types??
Cheers!


Replacing these with Silver Mica types appears to be popular, although there seems to be some conflicts in opinion. I'll see what I can source, and make my own judgement

[Zombie]

Not really my business, but why not modify the OSE instead and use the KIS as a reference?
Cheers,
T

[bs]

Hi, the following are a list of the key modifications I plan to make. These are not necessarily in order. I don't plan to do them all at once, but neither do I plan to do them individually!....as I don't want to pull the player apart so many times!

Also....I'm not sure I could hear the differences between all individual changes, but I'm confident that they will all collectivelly contribute towards a noticeable change. (I hope!!!!!!)


Remove muting transistors
Remove output capacitors (currently Elna Silmics)
Replace PSU diodes with schottky types

Bypass DAC according to Guido Tent's excellent "Supply Decoupling" paper.
Copper shield key chips.

Replace IV discreate opamp stage (Marantz HDAM) with AD8620
- Built on Brown Dog adapters and bypassed locally.
- Compare with AD8066 built in same manner

Possibly replace filter caps with Silver Mica...

Replace capacitors in DAC, IV, and Analogue stages with BG
- FK type for IV and Analogue due to size/value contraints
- N or NX type for DAC

Build & install multiple ALW Super Regulators
- both +/-12 V for Analogue and IV stages (two)
- +5v DAC
- Depending on clock, another +5v for clock

Improve clock
- Still yet to decided exactly what to do.

Test bypassing BG's with ceramics (at request of another diyaudio member)

[bs]

Originally posted by Zombie
Not really my business, but why not modify the OSE instead and use the KIS as a reference?
Cheers,
T

Hi T!, Thanks. Hmmmm...yeah...I've wondered that myself!

It would make more sense in some regards - as the KIS is a bit collectible - and modding it would waste some good parts, but my thinking is that I only want to keep one of them, and using the KIS as the basis would give the benefits that the copper chassis and torodial transformer provide.

A number of people on this forum have asked if they could mod their OSEs to get better performance than the KIS. Looking at the differences I would say - absolutely!!

Incidently - I haven't yet spent much time listening to both the units and comparing them, as I only recently aquired the KIS. After 48 warming it up, I thought it did sound a little more detailed than the OSE. I'll compare them more before starting the mods. (Just back from Snowboarding with broken ribs, so that will give me some much needed listening time!! ha ha!)

Cheers

[Zombie]

You have to turn the bass down then, can't have your ribs hurting with every beat...

Anyway, I don't have the service manual for the 6000, but on my 63 the following worked fine:
- close matching of the 10k and 27k resistors before the first opamp after the DAC.
- if it is applicable, do the clock mod as described on http://www.acoustica.org.uk/
Hard to hear much difference when I put in a LCClock later...
- put the output caps as filter caps for the HDAM
- fill the damn thing with huge amounts of bitumen

good luck
tom

[bs]

Originally posted by Zombie
You have to turn the bass down then, can't have your ribs hurting with every beat...

Anyway, I don't have the service manual for the 6000, but on my 63 the following worked fine:
- close matching of the 10k and 27k resistors before the first opamp after the DAC.
- if it is applicable, do the clock mod as described on http://www.acoustica.org.uk/
Hard to hear much difference when I put in a LCClock later...
- put the output caps as filter caps for the HDAM
- fill the damn thing with huge amounts of bitumen

good luck
tom

Ha ha! Stop it!
The laughing is killing me!

Excellent thanks. I've got the 63 manual, so I will find my equivilent resistors. Neither the KIS or OSE appears to have (virtually) any resisitors, so I wonder if they are on the backside of the board? I'll find out and let people know.

Thanks for the clock mod recommendation. Very interesting! Especially considering you didn't hear much difference with an LCClock. I'm considering clock options....

How much bitumen? Get the local road engineers to fill it to the top, or just to below the transport level?

Here is a question.......

I was looking at damping products...BlueTak, Brown bread etc etc... and found Dynamat:
http://www.dynamat.com/spec_dynamat_xtreme.htm
http://www.dynamat.com/sound_dbate_X...comparison.htm

This looks quite good. As you can see, it has an aluminium layer. If this was used, should the alumium layer(s) be electically bonded to the rest of the (copper plated) chassis, or is there no point???

Any thoughts?

[Zombie]

Buy bitumen sheets, cost about $10 each...15"x20", one is enough
cut into appropriate sizes and put under the lid, on the sides, under that circuit board, on the transport - and bluetac in the transport, not too much bluetac though...
t.

[Rotellian]

Hi,

I was going to post yesterday but didnt have time. I was going to say what has already been said - it would make far more sense to mod the OSE beyond the KI - it gives a benchmark to aim for, and also if you screw up the damage is less.

I have had good milage from copper shielding of chips that give out lots of RFI - the large microcontroller is a goodun for this.

A better clock is a must really. And a good powersupply for it.

Replace the output caps with Blackgate non polarised types.

As mentioned use some ALW super regs. (anyone know how much Andy want for one of these puppys?) Also consider another transformer for the output stage - perhaps offboard.

Better decoupling - using Mr Tents fine article, again as mentioned
many way to acheive this some more fiddly than others. Blackgate nx hi-q are good.

Pretty much most of what is mentioned come to think of it. Not sure what those caps are - mylar filter caps? And higher grade polyproplylene in the KI? Or somesuch. probably completely wrong!


Good luck with it.