Philips CD-104 Improving Reading of CDRs

[lcsaszar]

Is there any chance that using different writer hardware or software would help a little?

This is something I also would like to experiment with. On other forums I read that (old) Plextor CD writers are the best for writing audio CDs, and I have one built in an external enclosure, but it is SCSI, so I have to install a SCSI card in my PC. Also I have some old TDK 74-min recordable CDs, and some other Mobile Fidelity Ultradisc 24k Gold CDRs "for audio" that I haven't tried yet. Question is what source shall I write to my precious CDRs. There are no CD libraries to borrow from, like video libraries used to be...
Search for keywords "Plextor Premium 2", "audio master quality (AMQ)", "PlexTools".
In contrast of the above, some CDs I wrote about 25 years ago on common Kodak and Memorex material with no-name writer still plays perfectly on Marantz CD94 with Philips CDM-1. With other material I have mixed (mostly bad) experience.

 

[Salar]

My very first CD-R was bought in August 1994.
This CDR still runs perfectly, also on vintage 1rst generation players.
Later CDR developed especially for "long term archiving" were not playable after
three to four years on any equipment,
My guess is that the varnish on the label side was much thicker by default
at the dawn of burnable media than in later years.
Thus the dye carrying the pits does not oxydize. Maybe the same with DVD.
I maybe wrong here but as far as I remember DVD are always sandwiched
from two polycabonate layers - so oxygen cannot creep in...

BTW:
I have big problems with one CDM-1. It stopped reading CDs but was fixed before. This fix was after a long journey of repairing the electronics and even after developing a method to mechanically align the CDM-1 by observing the focus offset.
So mechanically it should be perfect (arm moves free, turntable height adjusted, no cracks in the flexcable, screws secured with varnish after aligning)
But the CDM-1 stopped reading CD´s after three months of use.
Again the electronics are perfect because I have two players to crosscheck. I even swapped the boards on the CDM-1 itself for checking.
So the problem is definately mechanical.
The non-reading behaviour is the same as the one caused by a common fault of two capacitors in the tracking circuitry shortening to ground.
When the laser catches a track, it will play it for some seconds, then it will stop. Amplitude of the eyepattern is up to the norm. I even recall that it was clear and suddenly became blurry. Again, electronics are perfect, mechanically it looks perfect, but does not read.
Any ideas? Did anyone ever try to swap the roller bearings? My guess is
that even thogh the arm moves free and bounces back an forth after kicking it (one way for testing the friction) there might be still some friction...

 

[Jonssen]

Salar,
CDM1 issues: Other than it might be an interesting project to find a solution would it not be easier just to swap out the drive?

 

[Salar]

...and one day there are no drives left.

 

[danico]

I dont know ,but I do have 3-4 cd 104 and a Revox b225 and never had a probplem with reading CDR's..

 

[Jonssen]

...and one day there are no drives left.

One day maybe, but not in our lifetime I fear.

 

[Salar]

27 Club you mean? Again, electronically erything seems to be o.k, why wasting a drive when the problem might be mechnical - and be solved
As far as I know, a 600hz wobble is injected into the swingarm to overcome friction of the ball bearings. The wobble is probably there, because a second CDM 1 works (even with the on-board pcbs of the bad one)
any way to measure if the head reacts to it?

 

[TV7]

Hi Guys,
First off, I am aware that there is an old thread relating to the Philips CD104, but I can't seem to find any discussion on why 14 bit Philips systems have problems reading CDRs.
I really like the 14 bit Philips TDA1540 DAC based CD Players - I really like the sound! I have owned several CD104s and a CDX all of them have struggled to read CDRs - 52x maxells, forget about it! After much research I discovered Japanese Taiyo Yuden CDRs written at 4X are a better option. But, although they play, the audio seems to completely break up in the worst cases or tick and cut out slightly in the better cases - You can hear that the laser is struggling.
Recently I bought a CD104 cheap, but it had issues! I did all the griplets but it still point blank refused to read any CDRs, it also skipped on some commercially made pressed CDs.
I decided to try altering the turntable height which vastly improved things (I suppose the disc was too close to the laser and not able to focus), I then got a TOC on a CDR and I was able to play the first track or two before the laser protested and the disk squeeled to a halt. I then realised the laser current pot might need gentle tweeking which I carefully did. This gentle adjustment made the CD player work like all the others I've ever owned, but as I said, like the others, CDRs display jitter like ticks and in bad cases break up.
Someone out there must know what I'm talking about! No 14 bit system I've owned seems to be happy with reading CDRs, somebody please tell me why! No TDA1541 based system with 7220 has given me problems reading CDRs.
I recently read somewhere that a properly adjusted CD104/CDX should read CDRs as good as newer machines but in my experience that hasn't been the case.
I must confess that I have done all the adjustments by feel and noises of distress put out by the struggling laser. I have been an electronics engineer for 30 years but for Roland musical instruments so I am no expert in CD players. I do assume though, that the aim of the exercise is to get the sharpest eye pattern possible by doing all the adjustments mentioned in the unit's service manual and CDM manual (which I have).
I just wondered if anyone out there can give me a pointer in the right direction as to what could sort out this reading issue.
So far I have done all the standard servicing tweeks - Lubed the motor bearing, adjusted TT height, tweeked laser, hardwired all the griplets, resoldered all boards and checked all the capacitors for value.
I'm now thinking maybe this is not a service issue, it's more of an electronics one, maybe I should look at improving things in the laser preamp section, like lower noise ICs?

Any help from you experts on the forum would be appreciated, please someone tell me if I should expect good reproduction from a CDR and if not why not: The CDM1 is a great drive with glass optics, is the problem with the preamp or the way the 1540 chip set processes the info? I assume the eye patterns on newer machines look sharper on a scope.

After reading your post I thought I could help you out a little. I have several Marantz CD73 and one philips CD303 (same) that I have had extensive extensive! experience in repairing. My biggest annoyance was poor CD-R playback. I have since developed a mod to allow these to play even the most scratched or badly burnt CD-Rs perfectly. (listening to one as i type) so I'll take a few photos and start a new post for all to see. These are my favourite CD players, after some changes the sound is second to none IMO.

 

[Mooly]

TV7's new thread is here. Looks interesting, thanks

Marantz CD73 Philips CD303 improving CD-R playback

 

[phildela]

I've plenty of players with CDM1 that have had no 'tuning' and they will all read CD-Rs, even poor ones. Most read errors come from poor media and poor recording. Choosing decent quality (e.g. Taiyo Yuden) discs and recording on a decent drive (even at high speed) will produce a disc that reads without CU (uncorrectable) errors and negligable C2 (correctable) errors. Try a CD-R/CD-RW drive rather than a combo and use decent recording software. (There's a complete art to this if you can be bothered!) There's a list of the better audio recording drives on the web somewhere - Plextors generally work well. Certain drives will allow access to low level error data so you can use Plextools or similar to scan CDs and CD-Rs and see exactly what's going on.

I am using Taiyo Yuden disks but my burner probably isnt up to much but the Plextors are hard to find and very expensive - Do you know of cheaper brands?