The mighty battle: Matsushita, Warner-AOL & rest of the world vs. Sony, Philips or just simple DVD-Audio vs. SACD.*
1. After reading many documents and scientific discussions I come to the conclusion that SACD can't hold the promise of it's advantages in the real world.
2. After many listening tests I found out that DVD-Audio sounds somewhat more organic and more neutral than SACD. With all SACD's I have the feeling that it sounds a little synthetic. But please don't forget that both formats are much better than 16bit CD.
*=Denon is neutral, Pioneer is friendly towards Sony/Philips
1. After reading many documents and scientific discussions I come to the conclusion that SACD can't hold the promise of it's advantages in the real world.
2. After many listening tests I found out that DVD-Audio sounds somewhat more organic and more neutral than SACD. With all SACD's I have the feeling that it sounds a little synthetic. But please don't forget that both formats are much better than 16bit CD.
*=Denon is neutral, Pioneer is friendly towards Sony/Philips
The problems/differences may very well be caused afterwards.
There is one huge difference between DSD and PCM one has to be aware of. DSD delivers always the same output level (i.e. power to be exact) independant of information. What changes is the spectral distribution of the output signal. If the level of the actual signal is low then there is a lot of high-frequency hash present, which might lead to problems within subsequent stages (i.e. pre- and power amps) although the audio content per se is O.K. The residual of this noise (that passes the output filter) can be quite significant.
Regards
Charles
There is one huge difference between DSD and PCM one has to be aware of. DSD delivers always the same output level (i.e. power to be exact) independant of information. What changes is the spectral distribution of the output signal. If the level of the actual signal is low then there is a lot of high-frequency hash present, which might lead to problems within subsequent stages (i.e. pre- and power amps) although the audio content per se is O.K. The residual of this noise (that passes the output filter) can be quite significant.
Regards
Charles
Re: Re: DVD-Consortium vs. SONY/Philips or...
Very funny indeed
Maybe you are in the wrong forum here, you should look for the Vatican-Catholic forum where lies are on the order. You know 24 bit is not just a good idea it is better by law - end of discussion. Even a 16bit CD upscaled to 24/192 - downscaled to 16bit with UV22-HR renderer sounds better than the original.
stefanobilliani said:
I do not believe that SACD is better than 16bit CD , and I do not need to forget about it.
Very funny indeed
Maybe you are in the wrong forum here, you should look for the Vatican-Catholic forum where lies are on the order. You know 24 bit is not just a good idea it is better by law - end of discussion. Even a 16bit CD upscaled to 24/192 - downscaled to 16bit with UV22-HR renderer sounds better than the original.
Re: Re: Re: DVD-Consortium vs. SONY/Philips or...
Where did the 24 bits come from? I think Stefano was talking
about SACD.
BritishSpy said:
Very funny indeed
Where did the 24 bits come from? I think Stefano was talking
about SACD.
Re: Re: Re: Re: DVD-Consortium vs. SONY/Philips or...
Take a 16Bit mastered CD (1983-1995), rip it with jitterkiller & 24bit/192kHz on HD, put the file in Wavelab and render it with the Apogee UV22-HR to 16/44, burn it on CDR with max. 4x. Voila! The listening test will end with a clear victory for the CDR over the original. The electron-nebula like cloud around the instruments will dissapear, much more 3-d stage effect and clearer highs. The most surprising positive effect is the much much better transient response of all instruments. But no wonder - no jitter and a highend rendering takes away many of the weaknesess of the old masterings.
Wombat said:
Take a 16Bit mastered CD (1983-1995), rip it with jitterkiller & 24bit/192kHz on HD, put the file in Wavelab and render it with the Apogee UV22-HR to 16/44, burn it on CDR with max. 4x. Voila! The listening test will end with a clear victory for the CDR over the original. The electron-nebula like cloud around the instruments will dissapear, much more 3-d stage effect and clearer highs. The most surprising positive effect is the much much better transient response of all instruments. But no wonder - no jitter and a highend rendering takes away many of the weaknesess of the old masterings.
tbla said:
perhaps - but its not only in the bits, there's a million other things goin' on in a cd/dvd-player.....
Yes indeed, there we have the better drive in the DVD-Player, the better DAC and less jitter. Just an example: Take the Pioneer (SACD & DVD-A) DV-565 or 563 or 656 and listen to it against a CD-Player costing 3x more...you will be surprised, it (the Pioneers) will beat the hell out of the past-time-16bit crap or take the Philips SA-563 (only SACD w/o DVD-A), this machine takes the 16bit 44kHz data from the CD and transfers it to 24bit 192kHz, the result: breathtaking clarity, space and detail with your old 16bit CD's.
BritishSpy said:@Christer: What? The "30 year war" between Catholics and Protestants is over? Ooops, I'm sorry
Actually, I assumed tbla was quoting Basil Fawlty and referred
to WWII.
By the way, thanks for the hero King Gustav of Sweden helping out to slaughter many many Catholics
Sorry about that. Our country has a bloody past I am afraid. If
it is of any comfort King Gustav eventually paid with his life in
the war and his daughter Queen Kristina eventually turned a
catholic and moved to Rome.
Well, maybe we should go back to the DVA-A vs. SACD war
or whatever we were discussing.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DVD-Consortium vs. SONY/Philips or...
Sorry to ask again. What is ripping with jitterkiller? When you rip a CD correctly you only have the data without any jitter on HD. Ripping 16bit to 24bit/192kHz is already a resampling process that degrades the source in a way. Are you talking about a special program?
BritishSpy said:
Sorry to ask again. What is ripping with jitterkiller? When you rip a CD correctly you only have the data without any jitter on HD. Ripping 16bit to 24bit/192kHz is already a resampling process that degrades the source in a way. Are you talking about a special program?
@BritishSpy
I advise you to do a double blind listening test on the files.... I think the 'audible differences' are all in your head...
BTW if you want to rip a CD accurately to your HD, use Exact Audio Copy, there is no substitute (unless you use Plextor drives, then Plextools does a good job also)
I advise you to do a double blind listening test on the files.... I think the 'audible differences' are all in your head...
BTW if you want to rip a CD accurately to your HD, use Exact Audio Copy, there is no substitute (unless you use Plextor drives, then Plextools does a good job also)
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