phn said:
Hi, you have bolted the suspension to the metal subframe ? but through the rubber tubes that normally provide some springy decoupling ("bounce") is that right ? I have to admit I'm sceptical about the benefits of removing this simple isolation. I'm not sure why Sony put it in. Perhaps to isolate the CD tansport from vibration, perhaps to simply provide some extra spring when you insert discs in the player over the tabbed hub and hence stressing the plastic transport . You will observe though that the metal top case that the transport sits on has a distinct resonate ring to it if struck, so you might want to dampen it. You do need to make sure no ventilation holes are covered.
jives11 said:
The suspension was purely a test. I had problem with a few discs stuttering and skipping. Didn't help. You find those rubber washers in CD ROM drives as well. I believe the main reason is noise.
I guess I will have to drill a few extra holes. Or I simply run this till it breaks and try to be more careful with the next.
In almost every audio CD players too.
They often have one side directly touching the transport, which is screwed in the case and the other on rubber mounts.
They seem to be there to reduce vibrations(Because most CDPs have a very light case that isn't insulated at all from vibrations, it helps for this, but if you have an heavy case with spikes under them, the transport should be in direct contact I think.
DragonMaster said:
Just to throw my two pence in, you should always have the CD floating as lightly as possible. The case may be heavy but it will still be subjected to certain frequencies of vibration that are beyond your control. There can never be enough damping on electro-mechanical parts!
Vibrations aren't relevant for CDMs as long as the laser can read. The CD is constructed in such a way that vibrations don't matter. The stream of data will always be irregular because of the way it's stored, no matter how stable the CDM is.
My reason for the hard suspension is this:
Lots of CDs are off-centred. If you watch the CDM of the PSX while spinning a CD, you see that it often vibrates like mad. Off-centring is a much bigger problem for CDs than vinyl because of the higher rpm and lack of mass. And from what I can tell, it's not the "tracks" that are off-centred, but the disk. Hopefully the hard suspension makes tracking easier for the laser.
I believe Sony and Philips got it pretty much right. It's the high-end audio companies that are in the wrong.
If vibration is a problem, it's the vibrations transmitted to the electronics. But that's not a problem in this case. Solid-state gear isn't very sensitive to vibrations.
I want to stress that the hard suspension has nothing to do with sound. I cannot see how a CDM, or even a transport, can have any sonic characteristics.
I can tell you that the CDM without the washers is quite loud at start and end of CDs, transmitted though the metal casing. While I don't mind the noise, I might have preferred a slightly softer suspension had it been an option. I used what I had at hand.
My reason for the hard suspension is this:
Lots of CDs are off-centred. If you watch the CDM of the PSX while spinning a CD, you see that it often vibrates like mad. Off-centring is a much bigger problem for CDs than vinyl because of the higher rpm and lack of mass. And from what I can tell, it's not the "tracks" that are off-centred, but the disk. Hopefully the hard suspension makes tracking easier for the laser.
I believe Sony and Philips got it pretty much right. It's the high-end audio companies that are in the wrong.
If vibration is a problem, it's the vibrations transmitted to the electronics. But that's not a problem in this case. Solid-state gear isn't very sensitive to vibrations.
I want to stress that the hard suspension has nothing to do with sound. I cannot see how a CDM, or even a transport, can have any sonic characteristics.
I can tell you that the CDM without the washers is quite loud at start and end of CDs, transmitted though the metal casing. While I don't mind the noise, I might have preferred a slightly softer suspension had it been an option. I used what I had at hand.
The only reason to stop vibrations is that the laser skips easily. (Since it's a Sony)
I might work on a little circuit to add a relay control and startup sound removal this summer, if I decide to spend the time to start programming PICs. I decided to use an 8-pin PCI because there's MUCH less components and power requierements with this than an other solution. (The biggest problem being the power-on timer : you need at least this : http://web.telia.com/~u85920178/blocks/5sec.htm, an AND gate, an NPN transistor and a new PSU to drive a relay)
I might work on a little circuit to add a relay control and startup sound removal this summer, if I decide to spend the time to start programming PICs. I decided to use an 8-pin PCI because there's MUCH less components and power requierements with this than an other solution. (The biggest problem being the power-on timer : you need at least this : http://web.telia.com/~u85920178/blocks/5sec.htm, an AND gate, an NPN transistor and a new PSU to drive a relay)
Antoine, what are PCIs ?
Also, I have eventually published a procedure how to recase the PSU. It is straightforward, but the article may be useful to someone. The link is in
this new thread.
Mick
Also, I have eventually published a procedure how to recase the PSU. It is straightforward, but the article may be useful to someone. The link is in
this new thread.
Mick
A PIC?
"Peripheral Interface Controller"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIC_microcontroller
Like an old CPU with a ROM in one chip.
I plan to use one that doesn't need a crystal or oscillator and has 4 I/Os. (The smallest Microchip offers, costs 35¢)
"Peripheral Interface Controller"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIC_microcontroller
Like an old CPU with a ROM in one chip.
I plan to use one that doesn't need a crystal or oscillator and has 4 I/Os. (The smallest Microchip offers, costs 35¢)
I will never understand CD players. I will never learn to love the CD format. I will never even learn to like it.
I have a couple of CDs that caused problem for my PSX, especially the remastered Herbie Hancock Head Hunters CD. The latter also caused problem for my DVD player. Then I sold my solid-state amp and the problem disappeared on both. I don't know why. I'm speculating, but my thoughts went to the big toriod in the amp. It was the only thing that had changed. Whatever the case, my PSX was fine and I couldn't be happier.
Then I added the hard suspension and the old problems came back. (Maybe they were back earlier and just I didn't know. I tend to avoid the problem CDs.) After a couple of days the PSX suddenly performs fine again. I couldn't be happier, both for the hard suspension, which I like very much, and PSX in general. But what do you do about these things? I don't know what's wrong when it doesn't work and don't know what's right when it does work. It's frustrating.
If there are vibrations to bother about it's the ones caused by the music, though I think even those vibrations are harmless for a CD player. But then, I haven't done anything to protect my turntable from vibrations, outside of the obvious, like making sure it doesn't wobble.
I have a couple of CDs that caused problem for my PSX, especially the remastered Herbie Hancock Head Hunters CD. The latter also caused problem for my DVD player. Then I sold my solid-state amp and the problem disappeared on both. I don't know why. I'm speculating, but my thoughts went to the big toriod in the amp. It was the only thing that had changed. Whatever the case, my PSX was fine and I couldn't be happier.
Then I added the hard suspension and the old problems came back. (Maybe they were back earlier and just I didn't know. I tend to avoid the problem CDs.) After a couple of days the PSX suddenly performs fine again. I couldn't be happier, both for the hard suspension, which I like very much, and PSX in general. But what do you do about these things? I don't know what's wrong when it doesn't work and don't know what's right when it does work. It's frustrating.
If there are vibrations to bother about it's the ones caused by the music, though I think even those vibrations are harmless for a CD player. But then, I haven't done anything to protect my turntable from vibrations, outside of the obvious, like making sure it doesn't wobble.
Is your laser adjusted correctly?
The voltages on Mick's website work for me. The values always depend of the height of the spindle. It shouldn't be much higher than the cover. Also, don't try to push it too hard or it will go too low(There's a click produced when it happens, and I think that if you have a CDM that never was touched, it should be OK)
The voltages on Mick's website work for me. The values always depend of the height of the spindle. It shouldn't be much higher than the cover. Also, don't try to push it too hard or it will go too low(There's a click produced when it happens, and I think that if you have a CDM that never was touched, it should be OK)
I doubt there's any problem with the laser. I have two very nice consoles. The problems I have with the PSX are largely mirrored by the DVD player.
I just tested the fourth, the problem, track on the Head Hunters CD. Seems to work more or less perfect on the PSX. When I used the remote and skipped to the track, it missed the first 10-20 seconds. This probably sounds bad. But it really isn't, at least in light of how troublesome it often is. It wouldn't have missed the begining had I played the disc from start. It played the track without stuttering.
I then tried it on the DVD player. This is not a cheapo player. It's a Pioneer and quite highly regarded as a CD player. The track stuttered as mad from about 20 to 37 second marks. So the problem evidently is the CD. Or if it's not the CD, it's at least not unique to the PSX.
The really annoying thing is that it might play perfect tomorrow and some CD players have no problem at all. I have no love for digital formats.
I just tested the fourth, the problem, track on the Head Hunters CD. Seems to work more or less perfect on the PSX. When I used the remote and skipped to the track, it missed the first 10-20 seconds. This probably sounds bad. But it really isn't, at least in light of how troublesome it often is. It wouldn't have missed the begining had I played the disc from start. It played the track without stuttering.
I then tried it on the DVD player. This is not a cheapo player. It's a Pioneer and quite highly regarded as a CD player. The track stuttered as mad from about 20 to 37 second marks. So the problem evidently is the CD. Or if it's not the CD, it's at least not unique to the PSX.
The really annoying thing is that it might play perfect tomorrow and some CD players have no problem at all. I have no love for digital formats.
Hi Mike_F
Excellent information on the remote power
supply mod ! Great site !
Wonder if adding some big caps in the PS1 case
empty space would improve the power supply
at all or could overheat it ! How hot does the
PSU get in you remote case? Does it have any vents?
Also adding an IEC RF/EMI line filter at the connection
to the new mains lead; could it help some AM radio
stations have less problems? Perhaps reducing the cables
to 5 for the power supply but using the extra two for
a nice blue led on the PS1?
Regards
Anthony_PT
Excellent information on the remote power
supply mod ! Great site !
Wonder if adding some big caps in the PS1 case
empty space would improve the power supply
at all or could overheat it ! How hot does the
PSU get in you remote case? Does it have any vents?
Also adding an IEC RF/EMI line filter at the connection
to the new mains lead; could it help some AM radio
stations have less problems? Perhaps reducing the cables
to 5 for the power supply but using the extra two for
a nice blue led on the PS1?
Regards
Anthony_PT
Phn,
indeed, a system that will not play the fantastic head-hunters CD is a serious problem!
I happen to have the remastered version as well, and all tracks run without problems. Are you sure your CD is not scratched?
Anthony,
actually two of your suggestions are part of what I am currently working on. I am testing a set of RC lowpass filters placed in the former SMPS position in order to buffer the 7.6 and 3.6 V supply lines. I use a set of 2200 uF caps and 75 R resistors. I will report later how it works.
My PSU case has no ventilation, not even holes. It is a metal case of about 1900 cm3 (i.e. rather small). I leave the unit always on and I never had any problems (I used a similar case for over a year before I made the new recasing recently).
Finally, I was also thinking about including a RFI filter unit into the PSU case. There is plenty of space there. I think this is a good idea, at least to protect other linear units in your system against the mains noise produced by the SMPS.
Mick
indeed, a system that will not play the fantastic head-hunters CD is a serious problem!
I happen to have the remastered version as well, and all tracks run without problems. Are you sure your CD is not scratched?
Anthony,
actually two of your suggestions are part of what I am currently working on. I am testing a set of RC lowpass filters placed in the former SMPS position in order to buffer the 7.6 and 3.6 V supply lines. I use a set of 2200 uF caps and 75 R resistors. I will report later how it works.
My PSU case has no ventilation, not even holes. It is a metal case of about 1900 cm3 (i.e. rather small). I leave the unit always on and I never had any problems (I used a similar case for over a year before I made the new recasing recently).
Finally, I was also thinking about including a RFI filter unit into the PSU case. There is plenty of space there. I think this is a good idea, at least to protect other linear units in your system against the mains noise produced by the SMPS.
Mick
HI
I was thinking after you take out the SMPS from the PS1
the two buttons on the top become redundant.
I maybe look into a thin aluminium skin
to cover over the left side of the player. Perhaps have two
skins made up, one for the left and one for the right either in black or one of those anodised lacquer colours, Do the same for the lid too! Difficulty is to make it tasteful.
I also saw an 1gig ITX motherboard stuffed into a PS1 box.
So why not a sorted PS1 feeding a VIA EDEN ITX motherboard
in a PS1 Greystation with an Allocator electronic crossover feeding
through a Maya1010 8 channel PCI card going into another PS1 case with six or eight D amp inside.
Actually you might need a few more PS1 shells (use 9002s as the innards are not in the 1002 league,) People would say,Why do you have so many playstations?
http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/playstationpc/
Regards
AnthonyPT
I was thinking after you take out the SMPS from the PS1
the two buttons on the top become redundant.
I maybe look into a thin aluminium skin
to cover over the left side of the player. Perhaps have two
skins made up, one for the left and one for the right either in black or one of those anodised lacquer colours, Do the same for the lid too! Difficulty is to make it tasteful.
I also saw an 1gig ITX motherboard stuffed into a PS1 box.
So why not a sorted PS1 feeding a VIA EDEN ITX motherboard
in a PS1 Greystation with an Allocator electronic crossover feeding
through a Maya1010 8 channel PCI card going into another PS1 case with six or eight D amp inside.
Actually you might need a few more PS1 shells (use 9002s as the innards are not in the 1002 league,) People would say,Why do you have so many playstations?
http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/playstationpc/
Regards
AnthonyPT
Starts being unuseful having a PS when doing this... Why not just use an EPIA and read CDs in DAE mode? That guy would have impressed me only if he would have used an IDE CD-ROM CDM udner the cover and actually be able to read CDs with it.
The two buttons can still be used if you fit a custom PCB with the original buttons where the SMPS was. Anyways, you'll need new buttons for the SMPS itself so there's no problem.
The two buttons can still be used if you fit a custom PCB with the original buttons where the SMPS was. Anyways, you'll need new buttons for the SMPS itself so there's no problem.
Hi everyone!
Have come to this thread a litttttlllleee late (at 100+ posts!) but am so glad I did. 10+ years ago when I was studying at University I put my playstation through my system to amplify my games. The system was an Arcam Alpha 3 amplifier (still a great little amp once the cheap caps replaced with Black Gates) and Celestion One budget speakers. Just for fun I played a CD through it and was stunned how good it sounded. Being honest in some ways (particularly involvement) it sounded much better than my Rotel RCD-965BX which was my much-loved source at the time. Kept it set up for a week or so then convinced myself I was imagining this - a Playstation couldn't sound any good! Not wishing to lose any Hi-Fi 'cred' I soon forget about it.... More fool me....
Fast forward to last week and I discovered this thread. To cut it short I got my Playstation out again, plugged in the AV - phono plugs adaptor and connected it up to my Audiosector Gainclone. I was floored! Playing Elton Jonh's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road I couldn't believe the dynamics this thing has. Snare hits were like bullets and had exactly the qualities you get from the real thing. No overhang at all - very fast. I was also amazed at how this thing can handle bass, and sub-bass. Bare in mind I use for day-to-day use a Naim CDI (which to be fare at 15 years old probably needs the caps changed by now so is not performing at it's best!). Well the Playstation sounded MUCH more exciting, and yet accurate and exceptionally incisive - this thing CUTS to the heart of the recording and gets rid of a layer of mush that is usually there with most other CD players. It's a great way of rediscovering one's CD collection. I also use a Shanling CD-T80 with RCA NOS output valves and OPA627 op-amps, but I couldn't hand on heart say it sounds any better than the Playstation. The Playstation sounded ALOT more involving and exciting, but perhaps just a tad to harsh at times lackign the Shanling's refinement. Having just spent a two-day weekend at the London Hyde Park Calling festival listening to Roger Waters perform The Dark Side of the Moon, and The Who amongst others that 'live' sound was still very much in mind. The playstation is just very realistic - period. This is also the maligned SCPH-9002 model with no mods! Needless to say I have a 1002 on it's way to me now, along with a pair of Black Gate 'N' 4.7uF 50v caps and 22k resistors!
Another plus point is how rich music sounds - not warmth but genuine body. Instruments possess their proper 'signature' - piano is a great example of this - sounding lovely and full, and yet with a rich 'bloom' to the sound which eludes alot of digital gear.
As Mick mentions on his great website I found the support made a great difference which surprised me. I am using an SRM-Tech perspex platform - Sorbothene pads rest between both perspex layers, and the bottom perspex layer in turn has four spikes to ground vibrations. This sits on an old sound organisation hi-fi rack. Without this the unit sounded so-so, but it really came into it's own on this support.
Been listening to it solidly all day, and it's still surprising me and in some instances - when the recording is a good one - honestly startling me with it's fire-cracker dynamics! So, I will keep this later model stock, as I like the sound so much, and will mod. the earlier model which should arrive this week and will write up my findings. It's a shame most people will never get to hear this quality of sound as they are either preconditioned (as I was) to thinking it CANNOT sound any good therefore it isn't, or it just doesn't cost enough etc etc etc.
I would just like to thank everyone here for opening my eyes to this games console's ability! Truly stunning. I can only imagine what the earlier 1002 model will sound like with Mick's output stage mods. I can't wait. Now back to the music....
Have come to this thread a litttttlllleee late (at 100+ posts!) but am so glad I did. 10+ years ago when I was studying at University I put my playstation through my system to amplify my games. The system was an Arcam Alpha 3 amplifier (still a great little amp once the cheap caps replaced with Black Gates) and Celestion One budget speakers. Just for fun I played a CD through it and was stunned how good it sounded. Being honest in some ways (particularly involvement) it sounded much better than my Rotel RCD-965BX which was my much-loved source at the time. Kept it set up for a week or so then convinced myself I was imagining this - a Playstation couldn't sound any good! Not wishing to lose any Hi-Fi 'cred' I soon forget about it.... More fool me....
Fast forward to last week and I discovered this thread. To cut it short I got my Playstation out again, plugged in the AV - phono plugs adaptor and connected it up to my Audiosector Gainclone. I was floored! Playing Elton Jonh's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road I couldn't believe the dynamics this thing has. Snare hits were like bullets and had exactly the qualities you get from the real thing. No overhang at all - very fast. I was also amazed at how this thing can handle bass, and sub-bass. Bare in mind I use for day-to-day use a Naim CDI (which to be fare at 15 years old probably needs the caps changed by now so is not performing at it's best!). Well the Playstation sounded MUCH more exciting, and yet accurate and exceptionally incisive - this thing CUTS to the heart of the recording and gets rid of a layer of mush that is usually there with most other CD players. It's a great way of rediscovering one's CD collection. I also use a Shanling CD-T80 with RCA NOS output valves and OPA627 op-amps, but I couldn't hand on heart say it sounds any better than the Playstation. The Playstation sounded ALOT more involving and exciting, but perhaps just a tad to harsh at times lackign the Shanling's refinement. Having just spent a two-day weekend at the London Hyde Park Calling festival listening to Roger Waters perform The Dark Side of the Moon, and The Who amongst others that 'live' sound was still very much in mind. The playstation is just very realistic - period. This is also the maligned SCPH-9002 model with no mods! Needless to say I have a 1002 on it's way to me now, along with a pair of Black Gate 'N' 4.7uF 50v caps and 22k resistors!
Another plus point is how rich music sounds - not warmth but genuine body. Instruments possess their proper 'signature' - piano is a great example of this - sounding lovely and full, and yet with a rich 'bloom' to the sound which eludes alot of digital gear.
As Mick mentions on his great website I found the support made a great difference which surprised me. I am using an SRM-Tech perspex platform - Sorbothene pads rest between both perspex layers, and the bottom perspex layer in turn has four spikes to ground vibrations. This sits on an old sound organisation hi-fi rack. Without this the unit sounded so-so, but it really came into it's own on this support.
Been listening to it solidly all day, and it's still surprising me and in some instances - when the recording is a good one - honestly startling me with it's fire-cracker dynamics! So, I will keep this later model stock, as I like the sound so much, and will mod. the earlier model which should arrive this week and will write up my findings. It's a shame most people will never get to hear this quality of sound as they are either preconditioned (as I was) to thinking it CANNOT sound any good therefore it isn't, or it just doesn't cost enough etc etc etc.
I would just like to thank everyone here for opening my eyes to this games console's ability! Truly stunning. I can only imagine what the earlier 1002 model will sound like with Mick's output stage mods. I can't wait. Now back to the music....