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Old 28th September 2006, 11:13 AM   #1151
bones is offline bones  United Kingdom
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although the ps series make adequate-but not perfect cd players (and in the case of the ps2 dvd player). they are ultimately gaming machines and should be treated as such-and playing of cd's etc should be left to machines dedicated for that purpose.
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Old 28th September 2006, 12:19 PM   #1152
croat47 is offline croat47  United States
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After following this thread for some time, learning a bunch about electronics, buying a 5002 for cheap and getting hopeful for a winter project: I must thank Bones for taking all the potential fun out of this intriguing DIY audio project.

But, as the 115 pages of posts give me evidence to the contrary: I think I'll stay the course! Has anyone used a Decware Z-box? I am thinking that would be an interesting tube buffer to throw into the mix. Now...to finish the three speaker projects, replace the windows in the house, and re-side before the weather turns. (Note: task list not in order of precedence.)

Regards,
Aaron
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Aaron
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Old 28th September 2006, 01:06 PM   #1153
phn is offline phn  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by bones
although the ps series make adequate-but not perfect cd players (and in the case of the ps2 dvd player). they are ultimately gaming machines and should be treated as such-and playing of cd's etc should be left to machines dedicated for that purpose.
That makes sense. I have finally found a CD player that doesn't suck and I can't use it because it's a gaming console. Better go tell all those 300B owners to get rid of their useless telephone tubes. They should use tubes dedicated for audio, like the 12AX7. I'm sure they will thank you.

Or why not tell Jonathan Halpern he has no taste at all. I mean, look at that sound system. PLEASE!

Analog: Shindo Garrard 301 player system (with Shindo RF-773 Mersault arm and Shindo SPU); EMT 927F with EMT 997 arm and Ortofon RFG-297 with the following cartridges: 997 arm- EMT TSD-15 (stereo), OFD-25 (mono), OFD-65 (78), RFG-297 SPU CG25Di (mono) or EMT JSD5 (stereo); Shindo WE618 step up transformer (on EMT TSD15), Auditorium 23 103 step-up (on EMT TSD15), Auditorium 23 Homage T1 step up (on Shindo 301) or Shindo WE618 step up transformer
Digital: Revox B226 through Shindo Arome CD transformer or Sony PlayStation One (SCPH-1001)
Reel-to-Reel Tape: Otari MX-5050B2 (Shindo electronics under design)
Preamp: Shindo Petrus
Amp: Shindo Western Electric 300B Limited single-ended monos
Speakers: Shindo Latour field coil speakers, Shindo WE 755
Cables: Shindo Interconnects, Auditorium 23 speaker cable
Rack: LignoLab equipment rack
Power Conditioner: Shindo Mr. T
Room size: 14.6 W x 21 D x 9.4 H and opens into an 8' x 8' area

PS. The PS2 sucks as a CD player.
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Old 28th September 2006, 03:45 PM   #1154
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Hi

If bones wants to have us conform; I guess it is his
right to suggest it. That the Playstations up to SCPH7000
or so have high audio performance that has shocked and pleasantly surprised many of my friends is a reality. Sony seems to have managed to dumb down the audio in later greystation models which is in keeping with perhaps what bones would like to see as the way things should be in a world were consumerism is king.. However. sometimes corporations make mistakes in the customers favour and the early PS1s are a good example of this. My Denon and my Marantz Cd players seem very inarticulate when compared to my five humble AUD$25 (with 3 Months warranty) SCPH1002 & 5502 PS1s
DIY Audio is all about improving what goes into the ears and what is between them too! Practice the independent investigation of Audio truth!

regards

AnthonyPT

PS. all my playstations are in a state of colour transition
and will look good with my Valve/Ex ABC Trimax tranformered output preamp and the solid state amps and SME/Pioneer turntable!
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Old 28th September 2006, 04:08 PM   #1155
bones is offline bones  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by phn


That makes sense. I have finally found a CD player that doesn't suck and I can't use it because it's a gaming console. Better go tell all those 300B owners to get rid of their useless telephone tubes. They should use tubes dedicated for audio, like the 12AX7. I'm sure they will thank you.

Or why not tell Jonathan Halpern he has no taste at all. I mean, look at that sound system. PLEASE!

Analog: Shindo Garrard 301 player system (with Shindo RF-773 Mersault arm and Shindo SPU); EMT 927F with EMT 997 arm and Ortofon RFG-297 with the following cartridges: 997 arm- EMT TSD-15 (stereo), OFD-25 (mono), OFD-65 (78), RFG-297 SPU CG25Di (mono) or EMT JSD5 (stereo); Shindo WE618 step up transformer (on EMT TSD15), Auditorium 23 103 step-up (on EMT TSD15), Auditorium 23 Homage T1 step up (on Shindo 301) or Shindo WE618 step up transformer
Digital: Revox B226 through Shindo Arome CD transformer or Sony PlayStation One (SCPH-1001)
Reel-to-Reel Tape: Otari MX-5050B2 (Shindo electronics under design)
Preamp: Shindo Petrus
Amp: Shindo Western Electric 300B Limited single-ended monos
Speakers: Shindo Latour field coil speakers, Shindo WE 755
Cables: Shindo Interconnects, Auditorium 23 speaker cable
Rack: LignoLab equipment rack
Power Conditioner: Shindo Mr. T
Room size: 14.6 W x 21 D x 9.4 H and opens into an 8' x 8' area

PS. The PS2 sucks as a CD player.
a truly impressive system-but i cannot help but think where the words "sony playstation one appear the words linn or mission may not look out of place. the anology i was trying to make is that while the ps series also incorperate cd playing functions all you are getting is a basic sony cd/dvd player bolted on to a gaming console as a marketing gimmick and should not be held in the same esteem as the two makes mentioned earlier-they are simply (as with certain other makes) a class apart.
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Old 28th September 2006, 05:28 PM   #1156
johnm is offline johnm  United Kingdom
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Bones - I've listened to my fair share of expensive hardware during my stint as a reviewer for a UK Hi-Fi magazine. I can attest to the fact that the greystation (1002) is up there with the best. God knows why this thing sounds so good, (and if they wanted to Sony could make some SERIOUS money from re-releasing this early design but in CD player only form...) but I regularly put it head to head with my Naim CDI and hot-rodded Shanling CD-T80 and I have to say it is easily in the same league. Fair enough it probably wouldn't give Linn's now defunct CD12 any sleepless nights, but this thing costs 20 second hand, and can confidenty see off competition around the 6-800+ mark!!! Come on cut it some slack

If the internals were in a nice Naim case in a showroom I GUARANTEE you'd think it was an expensive player. In fact I've played a similar trick on a couple of friends and they were dumb-founded when I then unveiled the greystation.

(should add here that mine's had the 'Mick_F' output stage mod done).

Cheers,

- John
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Old 28th September 2006, 09:09 PM   #1157
bones is offline bones  United Kingdom
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point taken john-but i might add the ps1 i listened to had no modifications. but thanks for that input-very informative.
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Old 29th September 2006, 12:46 PM   #1158
jives11 is offline jives11  Europe
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnm
Bones - I've listened to my fair share of expensive hardware during my stint as a reviewer for a UK Hi-Fi magazine.
Hi John, I'm a bit surprised that the UK mags have not cottoned on to the greystation - even the more hands on "HiFi world", which did cover the T-amp. Is it a "don't upset the advertisers" thing do you think ?
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Old 29th September 2006, 02:59 PM   #1159
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Quote:
Originally posted by jives11


Hi John, I'm a bit surprised that the UK mags have not cottoned on to the greystation - even the more hands on "HiFi world", which did cover the T-amp. Is it a "don't upset the advertisers" thing do you think ?
Whatever it is....it's all good for the price point!
You can virtually get these things free, good for spare parts!
I have 3. One stand alone with the output mod....another given to a friend....and now one re-boxed and intergrated with a T-amp....it's the cheapest bang for buck(pound) you can get!
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Old 29th September 2006, 05:22 PM   #1160
phn is offline phn  Sweden
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I have no problem with people criticising the PSX. It would surprise me more if people didn't. But I still find the criticism misplaced. Now thinking about it, I do have problems with it.

The problem with audio isn't the PSX, or the Sonic Impact T-amp. The problem with audio is audio itself, or more precise, "audio grade." By labelling something "audio grade" you can put a 1,000 PC with a customised Linux OS in a swank cabinet and sell it for 20,000! The original Xbox does everything the Linn Knekt Kivor system does and more, yet Stereophile gave the 20,000 PC a thumbs up!! Or my pet peeve, high-price transports. The transport is irrelevant in the chain. The very nature of the CD makes the transport irrelevant, as long as the transport is able to read the CD. I may not be the CD's biggest fan. But I like it because it's democratic. That is, money has very little to do with how a CD player sounds.

Instead of bothering about something that costs next to nothing, why not go after crooks like Linn and Teac and their mouth-pieces in the audio press? Not to mention the infamous Transparent Cable. But that's as likely to happen as Jesus getting kicked out of church.

I wouldn't know how the PSX rates in the overall scheme of things. I'm sure that among the thousands of different CD players ever made, there are over- and underperformers. But I know that people pay big money for mediocre "audio tubes" like the 6SN7 and 12AX7 because a metal socket somehow sounds better than a cheapo plastic socket. So I would say that the PSX is one of the more rational things in audio.

Having that said, I wouldn't expect most people to use the PSX even if it had been the single best CD player out there. It has poor feedback and takes forever to start. Most people would never accept those things, and I fully sympathise with them.

I like the sound of the stock PSX. I would call it pleasant-sounding rather than good-sounding. The modified PSX is an improvement. When I have added the output transformers I will know just how good it can get.

I could not see Linn or Mission as part of a Shindo system. I guess we all have our kinks.

Aaron, the Decware box seems to be reasonably priced and could be worth looking into. But why not build a buffer for yourself? It won't necessarily be cheaper. It can easily get more expensive. The EC900, 6S45P/EC8010/5842 and direct-heated 26 would make for great, reasonably affordable transformer-coupled buffers. The transformers will need to be huge (in the excess of 6 lbs) and costly. But you have Edcor, which has very reasonable prices. The ECC88 might also be an alternative.
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