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Old 23rd June 2006, 06:43 AM   #1021
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And here`s the bottom side:

Personally I prefer this solution to the others I`ve tried. The sound is less dependent on the PSX following preamp.

Jürgen
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Old 23rd June 2006, 06:50 AM   #1022
jives11 is offline jives11  Europe
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Quote:
Originally posted by phn
I have just done Mick's "Replacing the output stage."

I hear a difference. The bass is improved, the area the PSX in. But it's past midnight, so any serious listening will have to wait.

I'm stupid. I decided to replace the suspension as well. Because I use these big military-grade caps, I have to place them so I won't be able remove the metal top completely. That I knew. So I decided first to do the suspension. First when I have that working I would go to the output. Like thinking people do it. And I had all reasons to be extra careful since I used stuff not entirely suitable. The screws I needed were temporarily sold out so I had to use a couple of others. Of course, I got all the problems I feared. 2 hours work. Another 2 fixing stuff.

The remote receiver in the photo is just to illustrate where it will go, when I get there.
Hi, you have bolted the suspension to the metal subframe ? but through the rubber tubes that normally provide some springy decoupling ("bounce") is that right ? I have to admit I'm sceptical about the benefits of removing this simple isolation. I'm not sure why Sony put it in. Perhaps to isolate the CD tansport from vibration, perhaps to simply provide some extra spring when you insert discs in the player over the tabbed hub and hence stressing the plastic transport . You will observe though that the metal top case that the transport sits on has a distinct resonate ring to it if struck, so you might want to dampen it. You do need to make sure no ventilation holes are covered.
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Old 23rd June 2006, 12:25 PM   #1023
phn is offline phn  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by jives11


Hi, you have bolted the suspension to the metal subframe ? but through the rubber tubes that normally provide some springy decoupling ("bounce") is that right ? I have to admit I'm sceptical about the benefits of removing this simple isolation. I'm not sure why Sony put it in. Perhaps to isolate the CD tansport from vibration, perhaps to simply provide some extra spring when you insert discs in the player over the tabbed hub and hence stressing the plastic transport . You will observe though that the metal top case that the transport sits on has a distinct resonate ring to it if struck, so you might want to dampen it. You do need to make sure no ventilation holes are covered.
The suspension was purely a test. I had problem with a few discs stuttering and skipping. Didn't help. You find those rubber washers in CD ROM drives as well. I believe the main reason is noise.

I guess I will have to drill a few extra holes. Or I simply run this till it breaks and try to be more careful with the next.
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Old 23rd June 2006, 04:51 PM   #1024
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Quote:
You find those rubber washers in CD ROM drives as well.
In almost every audio CD players too.

They often have one side directly touching the transport, which is screwed in the case and the other on rubber mounts.

They seem to be there to reduce vibrations(Because most CDPs have a very light case that isn't insulated at all from vibrations, it helps for this, but if you have an heavy case with spikes under them, the transport should be in direct contact I think.
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Old 23rd June 2006, 07:57 PM   #1025
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Quote:
Originally posted by DragonMaster


In almost every audio CD players too.

They often have one side directly touching the transport, which is screwed in the case and the other on rubber mounts.

They seem to be there to reduce vibrations(Because most CDPs have a very light case that isn't insulated at all from vibrations, it helps for this, but if you have an heavy case with spikes under them, the transport should be in direct contact I think.
Just to throw my two pence in, you should always have the CD floating as lightly as possible. The case may be heavy but it will still be subjected to certain frequencies of vibration that are beyond your control. There can never be enough damping on electro-mechanical parts!
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Old 24th June 2006, 11:47 AM   #1026
phn is offline phn  Sweden
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Vibrations aren't relevant for CDMs as long as the laser can read. The CD is constructed in such a way that vibrations don't matter. The stream of data will always be irregular because of the way it's stored, no matter how stable the CDM is.

My reason for the hard suspension is this:

Lots of CDs are off-centred. If you watch the CDM of the PSX while spinning a CD, you see that it often vibrates like mad. Off-centring is a much bigger problem for CDs than vinyl because of the higher rpm and lack of mass. And from what I can tell, it's not the "tracks" that are off-centred, but the disk. Hopefully the hard suspension makes tracking easier for the laser.

I believe Sony and Philips got it pretty much right. It's the high-end audio companies that are in the wrong.

If vibration is a problem, it's the vibrations transmitted to the electronics. But that's not a problem in this case. Solid-state gear isn't very sensitive to vibrations.

I want to stress that the hard suspension has nothing to do with sound. I cannot see how a CDM, or even a transport, can have any sonic characteristics.

I can tell you that the CDM without the washers is quite loud at start and end of CDs, transmitted though the metal casing. While I don't mind the noise, I might have preferred a slightly softer suspension had it been an option. I used what I had at hand.
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Old 28th June 2006, 11:50 PM   #1027
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The only reason to stop vibrations is that the laser skips easily. (Since it's a Sony)

I might work on a little circuit to add a relay control and startup sound removal this summer, if I decide to spend the time to start programming PICs. I decided to use an 8-pin PCI because there's MUCH less components and power requierements with this than an other solution. (The biggest problem being the power-on timer : you need at least this : http://web.telia.com/~u85920178/blocks/5sec.htm, an AND gate, an NPN transistor and a new PSU to drive a relay)
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Old 29th June 2006, 07:55 AM   #1028
Mick_F is offline Mick_F  Germany
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Antoine, what are PCIs ?

Also, I have eventually published a procedure how to recase the PSU. It is straightforward, but the article may be useful to someone. The link is in

this new thread.

Mick
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Old 29th June 2006, 04:43 PM   #1029
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A PIC?

"Peripheral Interface Controller"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIC_microcontroller

Like an old CPU with a ROM in one chip.

I plan to use one that doesn't need a crystal or oscillator and has 4 I/Os. (The smallest Microchip offers, costs 35¢)
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Old 29th June 2006, 11:52 PM   #1030
phn is offline phn  Sweden
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I will never understand CD players. I will never learn to love the CD format. I will never even learn to like it.

I have a couple of CDs that caused problem for my PSX, especially the remastered Herbie Hancock Head Hunters CD. The latter also caused problem for my DVD player. Then I sold my solid-state amp and the problem disappeared on both. I don't know why. I'm speculating, but my thoughts went to the big toriod in the amp. It was the only thing that had changed. Whatever the case, my PSX was fine and I couldn't be happier.

Then I added the hard suspension and the old problems came back. (Maybe they were back earlier and just I didn't know. I tend to avoid the problem CDs.) After a couple of days the PSX suddenly performs fine again. I couldn't be happier, both for the hard suspension, which I like very much, and PSX in general. But what do you do about these things? I don't know what's wrong when it doesn't work and don't know what's right when it does work. It's frustrating.

If there are vibrations to bother about it's the ones caused by the music, though I think even those vibrations are harmless for a CD player. But then, I haven't done anything to protect my turntable from vibrations, outside of the obvious, like making sure it doesn't wobble.
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