NAD c521i
I got this cd player back in 2011/12 for $19 because the tray wouldn't work and it wouldn't read discs. When I got it home, I just cleaned things up and it actually worked fine for me. At the time, I thought I had really lucked out. But then it stopped working and doing exactly what the seller told me. Ok, time to make decisions.
My first decision was simple. Heck yah, I was going to fix it. Afterall, for the short time it played music, it was a better sound quality than the Denon I had, or any other cdp I had owned. During the following six months, I went through a process of doing some work on my own, and eventually, when I had some crystal issues with a Burson Audio clock, I sent the unit to Parts Connexion. The sorted out the crystal issue, and while it was there, they did a few more small mods at my request.
Repairs:
Sony KSS-213 CL Laser Assembly (same as KSS-213C according to NAD)
Tray belt #4102-9026-0 (NAD/SONY)
Ribbon Cable #E66085 AWM 20624
Mods (w/help from Parts Connexion):
Output RCA jacks
Output wire
Output stage series resistors and coupling caps
Main PS caps and diodes
Burson Audio Clock
NewClassD Dexa UWB PS Regulators
Op amps (D8620 w/8 Pin DIP Sockets)
Chassis dampening
-------
Up until a few days ago, the unit has been spectacular, with exception of a few rare occasions over the last couple years where I'll get a "no disc" error. When that happens, I would normally power off, remove the case cover, power back up and see that the chuck pulley (w/magnet) was not spinning like it should. Every time, the solution was simply touching the pulley, in a light slow spin with my finger on the chuck pulley. It always worked. This means all functions. It's been a great deck!!
So two days ago after listening to a couple of cd's, I put a third in and I get "no disc", along with the clicking that occurs with the laser is moving up and down trying to read the disc. I swap with a previous disc to make sure it's not the disc, even though this deck has played all my discs at least twice. It didn't read, so I powered off the unit, removed the top and this is what I saw.
Powering up with the tray closed, there is no movement of the sled/tray. I can't say that I've ever noticed this. I don't think that is how this assembly works. To my knowledge, the normal behavior is the laser bobs up/down and you can see the red laser on.
I failed the mention that sometimes the way I would fix this in the past is to remove the plastic top plate that holds the chucking mechanism. For some reason unknown to me, be doing this and rotating the chuck, putting back on and screwing down, the unit would work again for another 7-9 months, before I'd have to do that again, or as I mentioned earlier ... just touching the chuck with a cd in the unit and powered on.
I didn't have time to troubleshoot, so I left the unit alone. Yesterday, I decided to try again. Put a disc in and it played fine. For about 20 seconds, when the sound got warbled, sounding like the disc speed slowed a little before losing the signal (no music). I did a quick search online and saw posts mentioning to check the action of the laser to see if it is moving and if the laser is on.
I took the cover off again, pulled the disc out as I wanted to see what was going on ... this time, the red laser is NOT on while the lens is bobbing up and down. It makes it's clicking sound, and after a short while, stops and I get a no disc error. I should note that in the past there have been times when I powered up, no disc, and the display doesn't show the "no disc" error, the laser will continue for too long trying to read "if" there is a disc in, and the display has the hyphens on it.
The reason for posting this thread today is that I don't know what to do. And the reason for that is I am listening to a cd right now!?!???!!! I can't explain. I powered the unit up, put a cd in and it's playing. It's been playing now for five songs and acts like there is nothing wrong with the unit.
This is a MYSTERY to me, which is why I don't know if I should start troubleshooting. I should mention two things.
First, I don't have a scope. I know how to replace components and have a DMM. Some of the troubleshooting tips I have found mention checking the RF pattern, which I can't do.
Second, since there seems to NOW be nothing wrong with the unit, and I hesitate to start something I may not have time or money to finish ... maybe I enjoy it until it finally dies?
I have close to $500 into this unit, and I'm pretty confident it sounds as good as many other new decks I can buy. I could be wrong, but with the 8 pin dip sockets, I can try out other op amps, if I really felt it was worth it. I say this only to say that I have no plans to get rid of this cdp. Part of what I love about this hobby, is the ability to keep old gear alive, that still has value to me sonically, and visually. That's just me.
What I hope to get out of posting this thread is sage advice from experts. Yes, if this unit eventually needs to visit a tech to resolve the issues, I will do that. But at this point, I really think it could be something simple. As in a single component, or even the belt tray. I read on this forum that someone suggested the belt could stretch enough that it won't close the tray all the way. But I don't want to start buying parts blindly.
I kept records of the components I replaced, which may help. I have the service manual, and from what I read in there, it could be a faulty IC U101, feed motor, or faulty wiring.
Faulty wiring is starting to make sense for two reasons. First, the problem is intermittent. I'm still hearing beautiful music. This is nuts!! Second, components don't die and still allow signal through. Right?
Thoughts?
----------
For reference, you can read about the work I did on this cdp over at AK back in 2012 to get the audio clock to work (turned out to be a bad crystal): http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/need-help-with-audio-clock-upgrade.404778/page-7
I got this cd player back in 2011/12 for $19 because the tray wouldn't work and it wouldn't read discs. When I got it home, I just cleaned things up and it actually worked fine for me. At the time, I thought I had really lucked out. But then it stopped working and doing exactly what the seller told me. Ok, time to make decisions.
My first decision was simple. Heck yah, I was going to fix it. Afterall, for the short time it played music, it was a better sound quality than the Denon I had, or any other cdp I had owned. During the following six months, I went through a process of doing some work on my own, and eventually, when I had some crystal issues with a Burson Audio clock, I sent the unit to Parts Connexion. The sorted out the crystal issue, and while it was there, they did a few more small mods at my request.
Repairs:
Sony KSS-213 CL Laser Assembly (same as KSS-213C according to NAD)
Tray belt #4102-9026-0 (NAD/SONY)
Ribbon Cable #E66085 AWM 20624
Mods (w/help from Parts Connexion):
Output RCA jacks
Output wire
Output stage series resistors and coupling caps
Main PS caps and diodes
Burson Audio Clock
NewClassD Dexa UWB PS Regulators
Op amps (D8620 w/8 Pin DIP Sockets)
Chassis dampening
-------
Up until a few days ago, the unit has been spectacular, with exception of a few rare occasions over the last couple years where I'll get a "no disc" error. When that happens, I would normally power off, remove the case cover, power back up and see that the chuck pulley (w/magnet) was not spinning like it should. Every time, the solution was simply touching the pulley, in a light slow spin with my finger on the chuck pulley. It always worked. This means all functions. It's been a great deck!!
So two days ago after listening to a couple of cd's, I put a third in and I get "no disc", along with the clicking that occurs with the laser is moving up and down trying to read the disc. I swap with a previous disc to make sure it's not the disc, even though this deck has played all my discs at least twice. It didn't read, so I powered off the unit, removed the top and this is what I saw.
Powering up with the tray closed, there is no movement of the sled/tray. I can't say that I've ever noticed this. I don't think that is how this assembly works. To my knowledge, the normal behavior is the laser bobs up/down and you can see the red laser on.
I failed the mention that sometimes the way I would fix this in the past is to remove the plastic top plate that holds the chucking mechanism. For some reason unknown to me, be doing this and rotating the chuck, putting back on and screwing down, the unit would work again for another 7-9 months, before I'd have to do that again, or as I mentioned earlier ... just touching the chuck with a cd in the unit and powered on.
I didn't have time to troubleshoot, so I left the unit alone. Yesterday, I decided to try again. Put a disc in and it played fine. For about 20 seconds, when the sound got warbled, sounding like the disc speed slowed a little before losing the signal (no music). I did a quick search online and saw posts mentioning to check the action of the laser to see if it is moving and if the laser is on.
I took the cover off again, pulled the disc out as I wanted to see what was going on ... this time, the red laser is NOT on while the lens is bobbing up and down. It makes it's clicking sound, and after a short while, stops and I get a no disc error. I should note that in the past there have been times when I powered up, no disc, and the display doesn't show the "no disc" error, the laser will continue for too long trying to read "if" there is a disc in, and the display has the hyphens on it.
The reason for posting this thread today is that I don't know what to do. And the reason for that is I am listening to a cd right now!?!???!!! I can't explain. I powered the unit up, put a cd in and it's playing. It's been playing now for five songs and acts like there is nothing wrong with the unit.
This is a MYSTERY to me, which is why I don't know if I should start troubleshooting. I should mention two things.
First, I don't have a scope. I know how to replace components and have a DMM. Some of the troubleshooting tips I have found mention checking the RF pattern, which I can't do.
Second, since there seems to NOW be nothing wrong with the unit, and I hesitate to start something I may not have time or money to finish ... maybe I enjoy it until it finally dies?
I have close to $500 into this unit, and I'm pretty confident it sounds as good as many other new decks I can buy. I could be wrong, but with the 8 pin dip sockets, I can try out other op amps, if I really felt it was worth it. I say this only to say that I have no plans to get rid of this cdp. Part of what I love about this hobby, is the ability to keep old gear alive, that still has value to me sonically, and visually. That's just me.
What I hope to get out of posting this thread is sage advice from experts. Yes, if this unit eventually needs to visit a tech to resolve the issues, I will do that. But at this point, I really think it could be something simple. As in a single component, or even the belt tray. I read on this forum that someone suggested the belt could stretch enough that it won't close the tray all the way. But I don't want to start buying parts blindly.
I kept records of the components I replaced, which may help. I have the service manual, and from what I read in there, it could be a faulty IC U101, feed motor, or faulty wiring.
Faulty wiring is starting to make sense for two reasons. First, the problem is intermittent. I'm still hearing beautiful music. This is nuts!! Second, components don't die and still allow signal through. Right?
Thoughts?
----------
For reference, you can read about the work I did on this cdp over at AK back in 2012 to get the audio clock to work (turned out to be a bad crystal): http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/need-help-with-audio-clock-upgrade.404778/page-7
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Common issues generally (I'm not familiar with the NAD specifically) would be the tray belt and (if it uses one) any loading belts on the mech.
Micro switches used to detect tray and in/out also play up.
Your big clues are that spinning the disc by hand gets it working and also that touching the sled assembly now does the same. That could be caused by a lazy motor in the case of the disc platter motor, or dead spots on the sled drive motor.
If the mech is in the normal fully loaded position and the laser at the correct disc start point then the lens should bob up and down as you power on and/or open close the tray.
Micro switches used to detect tray and in/out also play up.
Your big clues are that spinning the disc by hand gets it working and also that touching the sled assembly now does the same. That could be caused by a lazy motor in the case of the disc platter motor, or dead spots on the sled drive motor.
If the mech is in the normal fully loaded position and the laser at the correct disc start point then the lens should bob up and down as you power on and/or open close the tray.
Thanks Mooly. The unit is still working today, so when the next event occurs, I'll take a look at the components you mention.
Looking at the specs, there seems to only be one belt, which is attached to the loading pulley.
When you say "micro switches", do you mean the Leaf Switch attached to the Loading PWB, where the motor is located? I don't see any other switches in the exploded view.
What you refer to as a disc platter motor, which I assume is the motor mentioned above, that has what NAD calls a Turn Table mounted ... which is what the cd sits on, with the chucking pulley above.
There are four gears in the assembly: drive gear, tray gear, intermediate gear, and gear (which I think is what moves the tray. I do remember this being finicky during installation of the new laser assembly. It took a few times before I got everything synced up, and since the unit has played so well over the past 4 years, I can only assume I got it right.
I'll be using the cd every day this week, and I honestly expect to see erratic behaviour over the next 5+ days. I will update as the need arises, and hopefully, we can pinpoint the issue.
I hope whatever we find, encourages other NAD cdp owners that are at the end of their rope, or about to give up on cd players that are worth fixing.
Looking at the specs, there seems to only be one belt, which is attached to the loading pulley.
When you say "micro switches", do you mean the Leaf Switch attached to the Loading PWB, where the motor is located? I don't see any other switches in the exploded view.
What you refer to as a disc platter motor, which I assume is the motor mentioned above, that has what NAD calls a Turn Table mounted ... which is what the cd sits on, with the chucking pulley above.
There are four gears in the assembly: drive gear, tray gear, intermediate gear, and gear (which I think is what moves the tray. I do remember this being finicky during installation of the new laser assembly. It took a few times before I got everything synced up, and since the unit has played so well over the past 4 years, I can only assume I got it right.
I'll be using the cd every day this week, and I honestly expect to see erratic behaviour over the next 5+ days. I will update as the need arises, and hopefully, we can pinpoint the issue.
I hope whatever we find, encourages other NAD cdp owners that are at the end of their rope, or about to give up on cd players that are worth fixing.
Well, I'm back. I think the issue is finally rearing it's ugly head. Honestly, if I didn't have so much money into this deck, I'd consider finding a little newer deck. As it is, I have no budget to do anything other than fixing. I figure I'd post today, and over the next few days, I'll pick an open night to do some exploration. I have enough info to at least post the most recent issues to zero in on the issue.
I can say the tray appears to fully load the cd, and most of the time, the cd will spin and the laser will bob up and down. The lens has been cleaned. I'm seeing two things happen alternately. Sometimes the disc will spin longer than usual while the laser reads the disc ... and then play for awhile, then audio will stutter, like skipping almost ... then no audio. I don't remember if the disc stopped spinning. The second thing that the cd will spin until I hit the stop button. The third thing is the expected "no disc" reading.
I'm thinking about checking the leaf switch and clean it ... but I need to see if I have to pull the assembly out of the deck to get to the switch.
Last question. I've read many of the threads about replacement Sony KSS-213C(CM) laser assembly/mechanism ... I am willing to buy another one, but I can't find the seller of my last purchase which has lasted 5-6 years, which is not ideal, but okay. I would love to hear if anyone has found a "safe" seller online for these laser mechanism's? I'm especially wary of the few that have "SONY" on the laser housing, since we all know there are fakes out there. I'm tempted to buy from a "Top Seller" with feedback over 99%. Any thoughts?
I can say the tray appears to fully load the cd, and most of the time, the cd will spin and the laser will bob up and down. The lens has been cleaned. I'm seeing two things happen alternately. Sometimes the disc will spin longer than usual while the laser reads the disc ... and then play for awhile, then audio will stutter, like skipping almost ... then no audio. I don't remember if the disc stopped spinning. The second thing that the cd will spin until I hit the stop button. The third thing is the expected "no disc" reading.
I'm thinking about checking the leaf switch and clean it ... but I need to see if I have to pull the assembly out of the deck to get to the switch.
Last question. I've read many of the threads about replacement Sony KSS-213C(CM) laser assembly/mechanism ... I am willing to buy another one, but I can't find the seller of my last purchase which has lasted 5-6 years, which is not ideal, but okay. I would love to hear if anyone has found a "safe" seller online for these laser mechanism's? I'm especially wary of the few that have "SONY" on the laser housing, since we all know there are fakes out there. I'm tempted to buy from a "Top Seller" with feedback over 99%. Any thoughts?
Good man Cranky! They were on my list of sellers. Even if I'm not 100% that is the "bad" part, I might as well pick one up for the price.
I am going to test a theory out tomorrow.
I had been playing my cdp for most of today, about 7-8 hours. It didn't have a problem till later in the day. About two hours after turning my system off, I got a cd in the mail I was looking forward to playing. I didn't have time to turn on my system (and get side tracked), so I powered up the cdp only and put the disc in. No problem reading, and playing, from what I could see on read out. Didn't listen.
I am wondering what component might cause problems ONLY after running for ~6-7 hours. So tomorrow, I'm going to time when I turn on the cd player and assuming it works, I'm going to track how many cd's I play, how long, etc.
The other thing is I have a Burson Audio Clock in this. When I first installed it, I couldn't get the deck to work. It was strange. I ended up sending the cdp to Parts Connexion where I bought my upgrade parts. They found the crystal was "bad", put a new one in, returned the cdp and it has been wonderful for the last 5 years. I'm hoping that isn't the problem, but as I mentioned, I'll start a diary to observe the deck's behaviour.
I am going to test a theory out tomorrow.
I had been playing my cdp for most of today, about 7-8 hours. It didn't have a problem till later in the day. About two hours after turning my system off, I got a cd in the mail I was looking forward to playing. I didn't have time to turn on my system (and get side tracked), so I powered up the cdp only and put the disc in. No problem reading, and playing, from what I could see on read out. Didn't listen.
I am wondering what component might cause problems ONLY after running for ~6-7 hours. So tomorrow, I'm going to time when I turn on the cd player and assuming it works, I'm going to track how many cd's I play, how long, etc.
The other thing is I have a Burson Audio Clock in this. When I first installed it, I couldn't get the deck to work. It was strange. I ended up sending the cdp to Parts Connexion where I bought my upgrade parts. They found the crystal was "bad", put a new one in, returned the cdp and it has been wonderful for the last 5 years. I'm hoping that isn't the problem, but as I mentioned, I'll start a diary to observe the deck's behaviour.
Update ... just installed the SONY KSM213CCM assembly and cdp works excellent as before. I figured the last assembly I installed lasted 6 years to the month. I just bought two more so I may be able to keep this thing going for the next 18 years?? 
Symptoms:
I have to say that NAD players are only for those willing to take the risk of laser mech failures, and willing to spend 30-60 minutes every 5-6 years to replace the laser assembly. The hardest part is carefully removing the ribbon cable and plastic connector on the side. Other than that, you have two screws top side, and four screws holding the assembly to the plastic chassis, from underneath, and that's it. Easiest fix of any piece of equipment I have owned.
Symptoms:
- No Disc error
- Audio during song would start cutting out and go silent
- Testing by skipping to last track, from first track in play mode would advance laser to last track where it would read the track number and song length, but would not play
- Upon initial cd insertion, laser would move up/down but not read disc
I have to say that NAD players are only for those willing to take the risk of laser mech failures, and willing to spend 30-60 minutes every 5-6 years to replace the laser assembly. The hardest part is carefully removing the ribbon cable and plastic connector on the side. Other than that, you have two screws top side, and four screws holding the assembly to the plastic chassis, from underneath, and that's it. Easiest fix of any piece of equipment I have owned.
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C521
Always need to resize.
Grr.
So, strangely i have the same cable you list but it does not fit even without the missing retainer clip. So I suspect the straight 521 used a different ribbon. Im not sure how to explain this to the parts department.
Im thinking e6000 might hold the right cable in.
Always need to resize.
Grr.
So, strangely i have the same cable you list but it does not fit even without the missing retainer clip. So I suspect the straight 521 used a different ribbon. Im not sure how to explain this to the parts department.
Im thinking e6000 might hold the right cable in.
Attachments
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Yeah, I can see what you are talking about now. I can't imagine finding that part unless it came off a parts unit. Without opening mine up, I'm guessing it snaps into place. I don't even remember how much friction there is with that piece, in terms of how it might hold the ribbon in place. I know it serves a function.
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