Hello ladies and gents,
another thread on TEAC VRDS-10 - CMK3.2 / KSS151A .
Most of them are for issues, like mis-adjusted servo PCB or roten belts. This one is for setting an used and abused VRDS-10 to be a very good transport on the cheap. No need for exotic stuff or shigaclone long build. At least I hope so.
Why?
I have a good old Marantz CD63 which is heavly modded and plays like a charm, calling for insane priced players in the shops downtown to do the same. And I want to play files also so the need for a DAC, hence the need for a transport to get the most out of Red Book material.
How?
It seems that these last years interest for CD players (as transport or not) has faded. I even read here and there that the VRDS are not that great, even sounds bad... abused units? Ok let's try by myself with a decent priced one so I can resell it with no loss if that bad.
I've found a VRDS-10 with skipping problems and drawer problems, with remote, manual and two spare KSS151A. Changed belts and adjusted per service manual, works flawlessly.
As is with it's internal soundcard it sounds not as good as the Marantz, all worse but a kind of details in mids/highs now and then, like in the mud there were some details I've never noticed with the nice Marantz.
Added a mid-range DAC on the SPDIF: on par with my old Marantz when the DAC's output features the LT1028.
First round of mods:
here I went with classic recipes, like on the Marantz wich is afterall modded to the bone :
- a PFM Flea clock with its dedicated supply,
- a full recap' with same/slightly higher capacitance (what I had in hands) and good specs (FC, FM, OsCon, ZLH) and few film caps on smaller values (filters and signal coupling, so I guess no harm on being film caps). I've also added larger lytics where Teac only provided ceramic tiny caps, then added X7R smd caps between IC's pins as close as possible. Better local PSU lines decoupling can't hurt.
- a lovely 75R BNC, RG59 BNC cables.
So I am here:
that's a new transport! Details, space, room acoutics clearly audible, bass is now here, highs no more harsh. Now beats the Marantz.
Saldy it won't lock with my Buffalo II which I am building meanwhile.
Where the next stop please?
All that was in my budget (cheap compared to shop's prices here in France), and maybe I can get a bit more out of the VRDS-10.
Damping? Feet? Another PSU for some parts like opamps's laser drive? SPDIF improvement? Snake oil? Oh no, no Snake Oil please
Sadly Audiofanatic seems away... was full of ideas but never explained them much. Anyone else with successful mods?
Thanks guys even if I'm the last one to use a VRDS...
=p
Matthieu
another thread on TEAC VRDS-10 - CMK3.2 / KSS151A .
Most of them are for issues, like mis-adjusted servo PCB or roten belts. This one is for setting an used and abused VRDS-10 to be a very good transport on the cheap. No need for exotic stuff or shigaclone long build. At least I hope so.
Why?
I have a good old Marantz CD63 which is heavly modded and plays like a charm, calling for insane priced players in the shops downtown to do the same. And I want to play files also so the need for a DAC, hence the need for a transport to get the most out of Red Book material.
How?
It seems that these last years interest for CD players (as transport or not) has faded. I even read here and there that the VRDS are not that great, even sounds bad... abused units? Ok let's try by myself with a decent priced one so I can resell it with no loss if that bad.
I've found a VRDS-10 with skipping problems and drawer problems, with remote, manual and two spare KSS151A. Changed belts and adjusted per service manual, works flawlessly.
As is with it's internal soundcard it sounds not as good as the Marantz, all worse but a kind of details in mids/highs now and then, like in the mud there were some details I've never noticed with the nice Marantz.
Added a mid-range DAC on the SPDIF: on par with my old Marantz when the DAC's output features the LT1028.
First round of mods:
here I went with classic recipes, like on the Marantz wich is afterall modded to the bone :
- a PFM Flea clock with its dedicated supply,
- a full recap' with same/slightly higher capacitance (what I had in hands) and good specs (FC, FM, OsCon, ZLH) and few film caps on smaller values (filters and signal coupling, so I guess no harm on being film caps). I've also added larger lytics where Teac only provided ceramic tiny caps, then added X7R smd caps between IC's pins as close as possible. Better local PSU lines decoupling can't hurt.
- a lovely 75R BNC, RG59 BNC cables.
So I am here:
that's a new transport! Details, space, room acoutics clearly audible, bass is now here, highs no more harsh. Now beats the Marantz.
Saldy it won't lock with my Buffalo II which I am building meanwhile.
Where the next stop please?
All that was in my budget (cheap compared to shop's prices here in France), and maybe I can get a bit more out of the VRDS-10.
Damping? Feet? Another PSU for some parts like opamps's laser drive? SPDIF improvement? Snake oil? Oh no, no Snake Oil please
Sadly Audiofanatic seems away... was full of ideas but never explained them much. Anyone else with successful mods?
Thanks guys even if I'm the last one to use a VRDS...
=p
Matthieu
Attachments
Last edited:
I've had a look at SPDIF signal as BII won't lock. Pic below, very ugly shape!
I wonder if it is faulty or just factory crap, a part failure or any problem, the 225mV PP being really out of specs. Anyone able to check on his own gear?
I plan to steal TTL out of the CXD2500, then 470R to a 74HC04, 100nF pulse cap (FKP from Wima), a Murata DA101 and then a voltage divider@75R. Sounds good to you guys?
I wonder if it is faulty or just factory crap, a part failure or any problem, the 225mV PP being really out of specs. Anyone able to check on his own gear?
I plan to steal TTL out of the CXD2500, then 470R to a 74HC04, 100nF pulse cap (FKP from Wima), a Murata DA101 and then a voltage divider@75R. Sounds good to you guys?
Attachments
It's all done.
Hi readers (oh my! that echo...)
See pics for infos, but: gone ferrite beads à la Tent, added IC local decoupling, fitted a regulated PSU dedicated to servos (and local 7805/7905 for a +/-5V servo's IC), maybe an overkill one but got it in drawers so... A simple logic IC, a transformer then a T network @75R and the 75R BNC for my SPDIF picked at the CXD2500. Looks like normal digital signal now.
Adjusted the laser mech and closed the lid for ever. It works like a charm, fast and quiet. As for sound, there is a clear increase in bass, wonder how it is possible with only the transport modded but it is here for real, been heard on the first second by friend when visiting.
So I still have questions... how the hell these mods brought out more bass? Can it be the SPDIF? I was guessing I'll be rewarded by more details and finer definition, wich I did gain (much seen on room acoustic on voices), but never thought the tonal balance can change for more low end. Anyone on that?
Second question but this is not linked to the TEAC, how is it that that with more bass I do feel (feeling right, no mesurement here), so I feel I loose a tad of clarity? Maybe the brain having more sounds is loosing focus? I know we have more energy spent on bass, DAC being out of steam pushing current? Amp loosing grip on higher frequencies because of bass? Should get used to the new flavor for a while... maybe my tiny DAC is showing its limit now... time for the Buffalo with OPC's NTD1!
Hi readers (oh my! that echo...)
See pics for infos, but: gone ferrite beads à la Tent, added IC local decoupling, fitted a regulated PSU dedicated to servos (and local 7805/7905 for a +/-5V servo's IC), maybe an overkill one but got it in drawers so... A simple logic IC, a transformer then a T network @75R and the 75R BNC for my SPDIF picked at the CXD2500. Looks like normal digital signal now.
Adjusted the laser mech and closed the lid for ever. It works like a charm, fast and quiet. As for sound, there is a clear increase in bass, wonder how it is possible with only the transport modded but it is here for real, been heard on the first second by friend when visiting.
So I still have questions... how the hell these mods brought out more bass? Can it be the SPDIF? I was guessing I'll be rewarded by more details and finer definition, wich I did gain (much seen on room acoustic on voices), but never thought the tonal balance can change for more low end. Anyone on that?
Second question but this is not linked to the TEAC, how is it that that with more bass I do feel (feeling right, no mesurement here), so I feel I loose a tad of clarity? Maybe the brain having more sounds is loosing focus? I know we have more energy spent on bass, DAC being out of steam pushing current? Amp loosing grip on higher frequencies because of bass? Should get used to the new flavor for a while... maybe my tiny DAC is showing its limit now... time for the Buffalo with OPC's NTD1!
Attachments
Hi Ian
Yes that SPDIF... planned a standalone DAC with also an USB source, so that was the easy way, and I must say it sound great.
Or maybe should I manage to run the I2S via a cable, that may be possible for short lenght. I did not read that far, but I guess the I2S is used between the Decoder and the ( quite far away ) DAC chips ?
Yes that SPDIF... planned a standalone DAC with also an USB source, so that was the easy way, and I must say it sound great.
Or maybe should I manage to run the I2S via a cable, that may be possible for short lenght. I did not read that far, but I guess the I2S is used between the Decoder and the ( quite far away ) DAC chips ?
Dont worry too much about the length of I2S lines inside the player.
You can see in the VRDS10 I modded back in 2009 that that extend across the player to the DAC board mounted left of the transport.
That was a very nice player. The only issue was that it used 8SIL opamps meaning I had to get creative with some adapters!!
But tidied to this...
Clock and caps all round plus the opamps and output caps were changed
The transport is one of the best ever
Hadn't discovered SEPC's for the digital rails back then!!
You can see in the VRDS10 I modded back in 2009 that that extend across the player to the DAC board mounted left of the transport.
That was a very nice player. The only issue was that it used 8SIL opamps meaning I had to get creative with some adapters!!
But tidied to this...
Clock and caps all round plus the opamps and output caps were changed
The transport is one of the best ever
Hadn't discovered SEPC's for the digital rails back then!!
Wiring mistake!
Warning!
In case someone want to do it, my picture of PCB, track side, is the wrong pin for clock input. Yes, I do feed the clock to the XTA-O(ut) pin, not the XTA-I pin. And odd enough it works! Hope I did not fried anything in the CXD2500BQ, will change that ASAP. Will I sleep at night now I've seen this? Not sure... ='(
Warning!
In case someone want to do it, my picture of PCB, track side, is the wrong pin for clock input. Yes, I do feed the clock to the XTA-O(ut) pin, not the XTA-I
pin. And odd enough it works! Hope I did not fried anything in the CXD2500BQ, will change that ASAP. Will I sleep at night now I've seen this? Not sure... ='(
Thanks Malefoda, good work !
I too am modding my VRDS-10 as i have a P-10- as comparison and i must say the difference is not small. Indeed more bass and holographic space with the big brother.
I noticed that the ground lines are not shared in the P-10 drive and adding a separate PSU will do the same here, therefore it could sound similar now.
I will give it a try as only changing the clock did not bring me closer to the P-10.
I have however removed the S/Pdif output and go i2s directly to the dac (with some glue logic).
I too am modding my VRDS-10 as i have a P-10- as comparison and i must say the difference is not small. Indeed more bass and holographic space with the big brother.
I noticed that the ground lines are not shared in the P-10 drive and adding a separate PSU will do the same here, therefore it could sound similar now.
I will give it a try as only changing the clock did not bring me closer to the P-10.
I have however removed the S/Pdif output and go i2s directly to the dac (with some glue logic).
Hi Lampie,
IIRC the clock itself, as a first step, took the player out of the mud (my cheaper Marantz did better stock!), but that was the extensive supplies rework that brought it to great sound including great bass. Maybe the now separated servo drivers PSU tracks on PCB helps. I may took I2S out (using something like TPA Teleporter) but I now go by "whole system" upgrade, need better speakers first and finished DAC ... DAC which feature a faint hum (ear on speaker... I want it flawless!) on one channel, coming and going like something is not "dead" but faulty or polluting the mains... hard to track! Endless work here But yes, I2S planned "at the end".
HNY!
IIRC the clock itself, as a first step, took the player out of the mud (my cheaper Marantz did better stock!), but that was the extensive supplies rework that brought it to great sound including great bass. Maybe the now separated servo drivers PSU tracks on PCB helps. I may took I2S out (using something like TPA Teleporter) but I now go by "whole system" upgrade, need better speakers first and finished DAC
... DAC which feature a faint hum (ear on speaker... I want it flawless!) on one channel, coming and going like something is not "dead" but faulty or polluting the mains... hard to track! Endless work here But yes, I2S planned "at the end".HNY!
Yes lots of fun, that was a very rewarding project. It allows me not to be forced to rip all my CD collection on network shared files. And guess what, I still "feel" (expectation bias?) it to have better bass than the Allo DigiOne SPDIF with top PSU I use for my hosted files.
Another one which is a hidden gem IMHO if you miss the VRDS: Tascam CD-401Mk II. Almost as good with more bells and whistles.
My workhorse for CD control/quick playback:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/tascam-cd-401-mkii-s-pdif-good-enough.333505/
Enjoy the music!
Another one which is a hidden gem IMHO if you miss the VRDS: Tascam CD-401Mk II. Almost as good with more bells and whistles.
My workhorse for CD control/quick playback:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/tascam-cd-401-mkii-s-pdif-good-enough.333505/
Enjoy the music!
Yes lots of fun, that was a very rewarding project. It allows me not to be forced to rip all my CD collection on network shared files. And guess what, I still "feel" (expectation bias?) it to have better bass than the Allo DigiOne SPDIF with top PSU I use for my hosted files.
Hi:
I'm also looking for a good workhorse for CD control/fast play, just push two buttons and have music all around me.
I'm lazy, or I'm old school, but Clouds, PC, Servers, etc. are a lot of **** to plug in and control, for my lifestyle.
I like to keep things in KISS mode - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Thanks a lot for your advice!
Keep well.
Hi:
I'm also looking for a good workhorse for CD control/fast play, just push two buttons and have music all around me.
I'm lazy, or I'm old school, but Clouds, PC, Servers, etc. are a lot of **** to plug in and control, for my lifestyle.
I like to keep things in KISS mode - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Thanks a lot for your advice!
Keep well.