Shred,
Thanks for the hard work. After looking into this OPPO situation (LFE+ANY redirected bass, summed to the SW output = gross distortion), I found a review of the OPPO BDP-83 and BDP-83SE players by Audioholics.
Apparently, as far back as 6 years ago, this problem was noted and measured in the AH review.
An excerpt from the review (bolded, mine):
So, this problem has been around for years, OPPO is well aware of it and I think their blaming the movie sound production is ludicrous. I also believe that their hiding behind the "we won't endeavor to fix this because it will compromise audio quality" is the audio BS story award winner.
I hope OPPO doesn't decide to get into the audio cable business.
Thanks for the hard work. After looking into this OPPO situation (LFE+ANY redirected bass, summed to the SW output = gross distortion), I found a review of the OPPO BDP-83 and BDP-83SE players by Audioholics.
Apparently, as far back as 6 years ago, this problem was noted and measured in the AH review.
An excerpt from the review (bolded, mine):
So, this problem has been around for years, OPPO is well aware of it and I think their blaming the movie sound production is ludicrous. I also believe that their hiding behind the "we won't endeavor to fix this because it will compromise audio quality" is the audio BS story award winner.
I hope OPPO doesn't decide to get into the audio cable business.
I don't usually like to give links from Audioholics, as they are highly biased (not neutral as they should be for a professional audio site).
But I'll make an exception today: 0dBFS & Bass Management of DVD / Blu-ray Players | Audioholics
__________
* On my Oppo Speaker's setting menu (analog multichannel out), I select Large for all my seven speakers. ...That way I shouldn't experience a sub out audio signal clipping issue. ...For my Blu-ray movies, SACDs, DVD Audios, CDs, Blu-ray Audios, DVD Videos, HDCD encoded CDs, hi-res audio files, etc.
As for the delay (100-200ms) from the HDMI inputs; how can I fix that sir?
I didn't know about that as a fact, but I did notice the annoying problem.
I simply thought that it was my PC. ...Watching/listening youtube videos occasionally.
TIA
But I'll make an exception today: 0dBFS & Bass Management of DVD / Blu-ray Players | Audioholics
__________
* On my Oppo Speaker's setting menu (analog multichannel out), I select Large for all my seven speakers. ...That way I shouldn't experience a sub out audio signal clipping issue. ...For my Blu-ray movies, SACDs, DVD Audios, CDs, Blu-ray Audios, DVD Videos, HDCD encoded CDs, hi-res audio files, etc.
As for the delay (100-200ms) from the HDMI inputs; how can I fix that sir?
I didn't know about that as a fact, but I did notice the annoying problem.
I simply thought that it was my PC. ...Watching/listening youtube videos occasionally.
TIA
<<>> EDIT: I just noticed that my above link was already posted in post #7
* Plus, people are asking if the 93 and 95 are similarly affected. /// You said that you believe so, as the 105, 103, and 83.
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Shreadhead, are you still around?
1. How can I fix the HDMI input(s) issue (delay; of 100-200ms)?
2. Do you have more/additional info on the sub out clipping issue (bass management)?
3. Do you think that a firmware update can resolve that issue (digital bass mgmt)?
4. Why are some people upset about this issue?
5. And why some are saying that there is no issue?
<<<>>> Can you also measure the Emotiva XMC-1 pre/pro (with Dirac Live)?
I hope you're still alive.
What a life! ...What a bunch! ...What an Oppo BR player!
1. How can I fix the HDMI input(s) issue (delay; of 100-200ms)?
2. Do you have more/additional info on the sub out clipping issue (bass management)?
3. Do you think that a firmware update can resolve that issue (digital bass mgmt)?
4. Why are some people upset about this issue?
5. And why some are saying that there is no issue?
<<<>>> Can you also measure the Emotiva XMC-1 pre/pro (with Dirac Live)?
I hope you're still alive.
What a life! ...What a bunch! ...What an Oppo BR player!
More Bad News for the OPPO's...
On top of the existing problem with the OPPO's clipping strong re-directed bass content, I've found new evidence that the OPPO players clip an LFE track by itself with no re-directed bass added to it if you go past 0dB on the sub trim.
Here is the OPPO taking a LFE signal that is recorded at -0.1dBFS by itself with no re-directed bass added to it. It can play the tone clean at 0dB on the sub trim setting but as soon as you add to it, it starts clipping the signal hard.
That means if you take the already clipped LFE with re-directed bass signal and then adjust your sub level up at all it will make the clipping that much worse:
And for the OPPO fanboys out there who claim that this doesn't affect real world content on the disc, here is a scene from a recent movie "Earth to Echo" which shows how much worse this can make the already clipped signal from the re-directed bass problem:
This problem makes it even more inconvenient owning one of these players as you have to get up and adjust the amp gain manually to increase the level of your subwoofer because if you go past 0dB, it digitally clips strong LFE content. This problem also happens at ANY master volume level.
North, 1.-Unfortunately there is no work around to the delay you are experiencing. If your player has the Darby feature this will actually worsen the problem with latency on the HDMI input that applies Darby but either input is going to have heavy lag on it. My friend who had the 103 ended up selling his on Ebay because it was too hard to deal with. 3.-I don't know if a firmware can resolve these problems but it doesn't matter much as OPPO has flat out refused to address these issues for years now.
This problem will affect anyone who uses the analog outs and maybe even the HDMI out too because the clipping happens in the digital domain. 4.-People are upset because these units are far from cheap and are advertised as being dynamic high end audiophile players. That is the exact opposite of a source that clips content let alone to this degree. 5.-Anyone who claims that there is not an issue with these players is more than welcome to prove me wrong by testing them themselves, so far not even OPPO has been up to the task.
On top of the existing problem with the OPPO's clipping strong re-directed bass content, I've found new evidence that the OPPO players clip an LFE track by itself with no re-directed bass added to it if you go past 0dB on the sub trim.
Here is the OPPO taking a LFE signal that is recorded at -0.1dBFS by itself with no re-directed bass added to it. It can play the tone clean at 0dB on the sub trim setting but as soon as you add to it, it starts clipping the signal hard.
That means if you take the already clipped LFE with re-directed bass signal and then adjust your sub level up at all it will make the clipping that much worse:
And for the OPPO fanboys out there who claim that this doesn't affect real world content on the disc, here is a scene from a recent movie "Earth to Echo" which shows how much worse this can make the already clipped signal from the re-directed bass problem:
This problem makes it even more inconvenient owning one of these players as you have to get up and adjust the amp gain manually to increase the level of your subwoofer because if you go past 0dB, it digitally clips strong LFE content. This problem also happens at ANY master volume level.
North, 1.-Unfortunately there is no work around to the delay you are experiencing. If your player has the Darby feature this will actually worsen the problem with latency on the HDMI input that applies Darby but either input is going to have heavy lag on it. My friend who had the 103 ended up selling his on Ebay because it was too hard to deal with. 3.-I don't know if a firmware can resolve these problems but it doesn't matter much as OPPO has flat out refused to address these issues for years now.
This problem will affect anyone who uses the analog outs and maybe even the HDMI out too because the clipping happens in the digital domain. 4.-People are upset because these units are far from cheap and are advertised as being dynamic high end audiophile players. That is the exact opposite of a source that clips content let alone to this degree. 5.-Anyone who claims that there is not an issue with these players is more than welcome to prove me wrong by testing them themselves, so far not even OPPO has been up to the task.
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Shredhead
was this cliiping on the sub analog out ever fixed by firmware ? Bob Pariseau at avsforum seems to think it was (post 3491 at oppo 105 thread)
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/of...-owners-thread.2821841/page-175#post-55668716
i have my doubts the way my sub sounds
was this cliiping on the sub analog out ever fixed by firmware ? Bob Pariseau at avsforum seems to think it was (post 3491 at oppo 105 thread)
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/of...-owners-thread.2821841/page-175#post-55668716
i have my doubts the way my sub sounds