The adequte digital source thread - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Source & Line > Digital Source

Digital Source Digital Players and Recorders: CD , SACD , Tape, Memory Card, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th January 2015, 06:08 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Default The adequte digital source thread

I know this is diy but there is a limit to how intense this pursuit should be for many including me so with that in mind, are there any audiophile adequate DVD/SACD players under $200? What I'm looking for is a short list of great consumer audio gear that is cheap. The inconvenience and expense of a separate transport and DAC discourages me from diy digital sources but I would also consider mods of existing players that make it under the $200 number. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 12:58 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Something was brought to my attention that I thought I should share here. There were some manufacturers that used standard computer internal DVD drives in their players and then used the bitstream out function to feed an external DAC. This would seem to resolve the issue of laser durability and format obsolescence but is there any reason it wouldn't sound good? Will the PC DVD transport be inadequate?
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 01:06 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
I've just bought a Pioneer BDP-170, which is the 2014 model so cheap. If you believe reviews SACD quality is good and the next big hop up is the oppo, which was outside my budget. I have not done any A/B comparisons of the analog output vs my DAC running off it yet, but so far it does what it says on the tin. very few bluray at this level still have sacd capability sadly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 01:22 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
abraxalito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hangzhou - Marco Polo's 'most beautiful city'. 700yrs is a long time though...
Blog Entries: 115
Send a message via MSN to abraxalito Send a message via Yahoo to abraxalito Send a message via Skype™ to abraxalito
As you note, this is DIY - start out with something cheap and mod the hell out of it to get it into audiophile territory. For a DVD player as an S/PDIF source this would involve either replacing the switching supply with a well isolated linear one, or building a kick-*** filter (on one side or other of the SMPSU) so that none of the CM noise from the switching supply makes it down the coaxial cable into the DAC.
__________________
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents ... but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. - Max Planck
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 04:23 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
well he wants SACD as well, which DVD players wont do.

Wrt cleaning the supply, how does one measure what is there and what improvement is to be gained? I would have expected a bigger gain from putting proper 75Ohm BNCs on both ends and decent coax than modding the digital power supply.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 05:42 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Yes, I am looking for a universal player so the idea of a control board with an IDE/SATA interface (think arduino) with a separate DAC would seem to be the ultimate DIY digital source platform. This is the only way I can see making a truly universal player that is obsolescence proof. Richard makes the point well, if the PS is in order there aren't many reasons the cartridge ROM player couldn't be mated with the right DAC to sound great. Whether this can be done for less than $200 is doubtful but I suspect this route would be more fruitful than cloning a Shiga
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 11:20 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
abraxalito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hangzhou - Marco Polo's 'most beautiful city'. 700yrs is a long time though...
Blog Entries: 115
Send a message via MSN to abraxalito Send a message via Yahoo to abraxalito Send a message via Skype™ to abraxalito
Quote:
Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
well he wants SACD as well, which DVD players wont do.
True enough, I don't know of any el-cheapo solution to that as its Sony proprietary. Having said that I've just realized one of my DVD players (a Pioneer) does handle SACD. However when I looked inside it seems they convert it to PCM and send it through a BB DAC.

Quote:
Wrt cleaning the supply, how does one measure what is there and what improvement is to be gained? I would have expected a bigger gain from putting proper 75Ohm BNCs on both ends and decent coax than modding the digital power supply.
Common-mode noise is measurable, but I don't have the kit myself. You'd need something fairly expensive like a spectrum analyser to characterise it. I've gotten improvements in SQ myself from doing this - but I also modified my (home-brewed) DAC to make that less susceptible to CM noise too. I would expect little to no gain from changing to BNCs.
__________________
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents ... but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. - Max Planck
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 11:49 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
True enough, I don't know of any el-cheapo solution to that as its Sony proprietary. Having said that I've just realized one of my DVD players (a Pioneer) does handle SACD. However when I looked inside it seems they convert it to PCM and send it through a BB DAC.
Well nothing will output DSD, Sony do not allow it, although you can download DSD from some hirez sites. Go figure. My pioneer can output up to 24/192 on S/PDIF, but no idea how much munging is done to the DSD stream. But it is cheap.

Quote:
Common-mode noise is measurable, but I don't have the kit myself. You'd need something fairly expensive like a spectrum analyser to characterise it. I've gotten improvements in SQ myself from doing this - but I also modified my (home-brewed) DAC to make that less susceptible to CM noise too. I would expect little to no gain from changing to BNCs.
So why not go to AES/EBU and kill 2 birds with one stone? Matched impedance and balanced link so bye bye common mode noise...
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015, 11:56 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
abraxalito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hangzhou - Marco Polo's 'most beautiful city'. 700yrs is a long time though...
Blog Entries: 115
Send a message via MSN to abraxalito Send a message via Yahoo to abraxalito Send a message via Skype™ to abraxalito
Quote:
Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
Well nothing will output DSD, Sony do not allow it, although you can download DSD from some hirez sites. Go figure.
There are nowadays USB DACs that handle DSD. Even for a DIYer there are USB modules which put it out (Amanero is one such, probably XMOS is another). At least they're fairly cheap.

Quote:
So why not go to AES/EBU and kill 2 birds with one stone? Matched impedance and balanced link so bye bye common mode noise...
Nope, AES/EBU doesn't eliminate CM noise. It does however keep the noise off the signal wires but that has never been an issue for me.
__________________
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents ... but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. - Max Planck
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2015, 12:04 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
There are nowadays USB DACs that handle DSD. Even for a DIYer there are USB modules which put it out (Amanero is one such, probably XMOS is another). At least they're fairly cheap.
Yes but no disk player will output DSD. Ever. you have to download, or just hope the DAC in your player is as good as it gets.

Quote:
Nope, AES/EBU doesn't eliminate CM noise. It does however keep the noise off the signal wires but that has never been an issue for me.
Well nothing can elimate noise, but you should get around 40dB reduction with a balanced link in a level that you can't measure to start with. Kind of lost what you are trying to do with your noise mods.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why worry about the digital source? Interference Digital Line Level 58 9th January 2013 12:46 AM
Amplifier Chassis Source Thread ARRAY Parts 5 17th December 2012 02:40 PM
Build Thread: Ardor - point source monitor boris81 Multi-Way 30 19th May 2012 05:46 PM
Digital source switching NeoY2k Digital Line Level 13 7th January 2010 06:34 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:58 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2015 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2015 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2