Re: Burr-Brown PCM-56P, a better sub for DAC
I have a Japanese domestic CDP — 1986-87 — CDP-222ES. This is not the same as the export CDX-222EX ... and neither is it a "changer" model that seems to come up on searches using the same model number. AFAIK, the CDX had more garden variety caps and a different chip-set. One review of it is not very inspiring.
The CDP-222ES is not TOTL, but it has very nice caps and the build quality is a good cut above usual.
DAC: PCM-56P x2 (16 bit, 2x oversampling)
QUESTION: Is there a "plug and play" substitute that would be an obvious improvement? Would TDA 1541A be better? — assuming I could even find them now.
I expect that nothing "modern" would really be plug and play — or would it?
BTW — this machine is in good condition; years ago Sony Corp. installed a new pickup (KSS-151A) and declared it to be in fine shape. (They presented me with photo-copies of the schematics in case I repatriated to Canada). It has not been used much since (long story). I have the remote. Sony made some effort with this player despite it's being a more humble model in the ES "Elite" line — about $650+ at the time.
I have a Japanese domestic CDP — 1986-87 — CDP-222ES. This is not the same as the export CDX-222EX ... and neither is it a "changer" model that seems to come up on searches using the same model number. AFAIK, the CDX had more garden variety caps and a different chip-set. One review of it is not very inspiring.
The CDP-222ES is not TOTL, but it has very nice caps and the build quality is a good cut above usual.
DAC: PCM-56P x2 (16 bit, 2x oversampling)
QUESTION: Is there a "plug and play" substitute that would be an obvious improvement? Would TDA 1541A be better? — assuming I could even find them now.
I expect that nothing "modern" would really be plug and play — or would it?
BTW — this machine is in good condition; years ago Sony Corp. installed a new pickup (KSS-151A) and declared it to be in fine shape. (They presented me with photo-copies of the schematics in case I repatriated to Canada). It has not been used much since (long story). I have the remote. Sony made some effort with this player despite it's being a more humble model in the ES "Elite" line — about $650+ at the time.
Still answering my own question:
I did not find this in my search efforts DIY Audio. It came up in yet another trawling in Google. It a discussion in DIY Audio:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/42079-tda1541-vs-pcm56.html
I infer from the cited thread that I could possibly just sub in the 1541A's. But, for this CDP-222ES, it may be better to leave the PCM's in their places.
I am very feeble at understanding this stuff, but again I infer: the TDA's will be at their optimum best if they can be adjusted in the circuit, which is presumably via pots on one of the pins. The more upscale models in the ES series used the TDA's, and presumably they had more intricate circuits involving their DAC sections.
This could be a lot of twaddle — but its the best I can do on my own.
I did not find this in my search efforts DIY Audio. It came up in yet another trawling in Google. It a discussion in DIY Audio:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/42079-tda1541-vs-pcm56.html
I infer from the cited thread that I could possibly just sub in the 1541A's. But, for this CDP-222ES, it may be better to leave the PCM's in their places.
I am very feeble at understanding this stuff, but again I infer: the TDA's will be at their optimum best if they can be adjusted in the circuit, which is presumably via pots on one of the pins. The more upscale models in the ES series used the TDA's, and presumably they had more intricate circuits involving their DAC sections.
This could be a lot of twaddle — but its the best I can do on my own.
The PCM-56 was well regarded in its day, and has a bit of a cult following to this day as does the TDA-1541. I cannot imagine substituting one for the other (even if it is possible without major modifications) is going to net you any significant improvement.
I'd enjoy the machine as is.
In the world of digital things have progressed a very great deal since your player was made. My heavily modded SCD-777ES is almost a match sonically for the Sony HAP-Z1ES I bought earlier this year.
I'd enjoy the machine as is.
In the world of digital things have progressed a very great deal since your player was made. My heavily modded SCD-777ES is almost a match sonically for the Sony HAP-Z1ES I bought earlier this year.
Plug And Play no, unless you have digital out, than you could buy an outboard DAC from ebay.
Like the SMSL SD-1955 or one with the AK3499. I have the CDP-222ESD, but that is using the TDA1541.
Last year I measured it with a QA400, a bit better than a CDP-490 which using the PCM56. Jitter track is Wakibaki's Jitter3.
Pics CDP-222ESD 1kHz 0dBFS, jitter, CDP-490 1kHz 0dBFS
Like the SMSL SD-1955 or one with the AK3499. I have the CDP-222ESD, but that is using the TDA1541.
Last year I measured it with a QA400, a bit better than a CDP-490 which using the PCM56. Jitter track is Wakibaki's Jitter3.
Pics CDP-222ESD 1kHz 0dBFS, jitter, CDP-490 1kHz 0dBFS
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Thanks kevinkr and miklos: My ES is buried along with a pile of other vintage stuff. But, as far as I remember, it only analog and optical 'out'.
My current rig is a DIY Paradise NOS Monica III attached to the digital port of a Yamaha CDX-1020. I built a regulated 24 volt PS for the Monica. Right now the combo is fed into a Pioneer A-717. My plan was to feed the Yamaha directly into the amp side of a Sansui alpha-707Extra, set the digital volume out to full max and use the volume control in the Sansui to attenuate (yes, the volume is on the amp side). So two systems and going to one set of speakers — one reason I have put banana plugs on all my speaker cable.
Anyway, you've helped me make some plans. I'll try the Sony and see if I like it. The other option is to use Monica on a cheap Toshiba DVD player. I'd really like a new disk player, but I don't think I can afford one that will satisfy me.
I'll look at those DAC's you mentioned.
Thanks — Lorne
My current rig is a DIY Paradise NOS Monica III attached to the digital port of a Yamaha CDX-1020. I built a regulated 24 volt PS for the Monica. Right now the combo is fed into a Pioneer A-717. My plan was to feed the Yamaha directly into the amp side of a Sansui alpha-707Extra, set the digital volume out to full max and use the volume control in the Sansui to attenuate (yes, the volume is on the amp side). So two systems and going to one set of speakers — one reason I have put banana plugs on all my speaker cable.
Anyway, you've helped me make some plans. I'll try the Sony and see if I like it. The other option is to use Monica on a cheap Toshiba DVD player. I'd really like a new disk player, but I don't think I can afford one that will satisfy me.
I'll look at those DAC's you mentioned.
Thanks — Lorne
I owned an SMSL SD-1955 for a short period of time and was not that thrilled with it. I occasionally purchase cheap dacs on eBay as a project..
There are several dacs made by Zhaolu (Chinese) that are quite good and only a few hundred dollars if you wanted to try something external to the 222. I owned a D-2.5A, and there is a thread about extensive mods I did to this dac, ultimately I sold it to a friend when I was done playing with it. It's quite decent.
http://www.diykits.com.hk/Zhaolu D2.5.htm
There are several dacs made by Zhaolu (Chinese) that are quite good and only a few hundred dollars if you wanted to try something external to the 222. I owned a D-2.5A, and there is a thread about extensive mods I did to this dac, ultimately I sold it to a friend when I was done playing with it. It's quite decent.
http://www.diykits.com.hk/Zhaolu D2.5.htm
Hi kevinkr: when I get my head into audio (or vintage racing bikes) I get very stubbornly into it. So I have been at this crossroads considering solutions ever since I started this thread. (Had some sleep though
The Zhaolu looks great, and I even have some of the parts that some people claim are upgrades for it. But here is my situation:
I already have a Monica III DAC as well as a very nice PS for it. NOS may not be everyone's bag, but it sounds very good on my system. My inquiries about the 222 were in advance of my hauling it out to put on a second amp. So, in terms of vintage gear, I can get along with what I have ... and take the next big plunge in my audio career. And it is a catch up thing because I have not been following.
I am thinking about using/ storing FLAC, WAV, AIFF, or Apple-Lossless files from my MacBook Pro (and any successors) and using them on the vintage system via a USB-DAC.
This is a heady area, and I have a budget. I am looking into kits now. I guess I am heading towards other threads ... or starting a new one for a specific inquiry. Any suggestions?
Thanks for helping me sort out my options. And, I will be using the 222 and Yamaha/Monica — as is.
The Zhaolu looks great, and I even have some of the parts that some people claim are upgrades for it. But here is my situation:
I already have a Monica III DAC as well as a very nice PS for it. NOS may not be everyone's bag, but it sounds very good on my system. My inquiries about the 222 were in advance of my hauling it out to put on a second amp. So, in terms of vintage gear, I can get along with what I have ... and take the next big plunge in my audio career. And it is a catch up thing because I have not been following.
I am thinking about using/ storing FLAC, WAV, AIFF, or Apple-Lossless files from my MacBook Pro (and any successors) and using them on the vintage system via a USB-DAC.
This is a heady area, and I have a budget. I am looking into kits now. I guess I am heading towards other threads ... or starting a new one for a specific inquiry. Any suggestions?
Thanks for helping me sort out my options. And, I will be using the 222 and Yamaha/Monica — as is.
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Well, I am wavering there too — for a number of reasons. I should take another look at the above suggestions.
I think the first generation was distorting , certainly on 0 dBFS signal. The + - PS to the op amps where to asymmetrical. I bypassed the protect diode on the PS input and that cured the thing. I found the AK4399 is a better DAC than the SMSL SD-1955, but with not much.
The easiest way to get higher quality sound for your CD's is to buy a 10-14 years old DVD player. Blue Ray made them obsolete for many people. Very good one's the Pioneer DV-45a and the 47Ai, they go for less than 100 bucks on ebay and they are hard to beat. Also they play SACD and MP3 to. Pictures from left to right are: -6dBFS, -40, IM and jitter.
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