A VERY ODD REQUEST CD Burn Software with crosstalk (separation) adjustment - diyAudio
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Old 5th May 2014, 02:02 AM   #1
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Default A VERY ODD REQUEST CD Burn Software with crosstalk (separation) adjustment

Hi, hope someone knows if there's such a thing.
I want to burn a cd copy, but I would like to mimic the channel separation (crosstalk) curve of a vinyl cartridge.
That is 30db separation at 1khz and only 10db of separation at 20hz and 20khz.
So that it mimics the lack of channel separation properties of vinyl.

Why would I want to do this you ask???

I instaled a bleed resistor in the output from left to right of my CDP which gave only 30db of crosstalk between left and right, this was from 20hz to 20khz and the old cd's that are ping pong recorded between left and right (you know the ones like Beatles and such) were far better to listen to once the crosstalk was introduced, I figure that if I degraded it even further to mimic vinyl crostalk curve then it could be even better to listen to.

Maybe there's a budding cd ripping software designer here that can introduce cross talk adjustment into it at 3 to 5 frequencies that can be adust to the figures above.

PS I know I could do this with a bit more elaborate network between L&R of the cdp output but it would be different for all cdps because the output impedance differs, so it would be nice just to burn it into a cd called say "vinyl mix"

Cheers George
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Last edited by georgehifi; 5th May 2014 at 02:16 AM.
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Old 5th May 2014, 02:44 AM   #2
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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You can do this passively at the output of the cd player with a simple RC network so that the amount of summing is dependent on frequency. Since some series resistance between the CD player and network are required the source impedance of the player is not going to be that major of an issue, and if it is a simple discrete jfet or op-amp buffer would provide a defined source impedance and note that the reduction in separation with the typical phono cartridge was relatively smooth with increasing frequency.

FWIW The cutters generally maintained somewhat better separation values than you quote and good MC cartridges can maintain >20dB of separation at 10kHz.
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Old 5th May 2014, 03:09 AM   #3
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It would be simpler to just burn it. That way it can be played on any cdp, and A/B'ed with the original
As for the channel separation of a very good cartridge here is a very expensive Lyra separation graph.

As for doing it on my cdp, I needed a 100ohm between L&R to to do a crude across the board 20hz to 20khz 30db crosstalk with the buffer it has.
To get it down at even more 10db at 20hz and 20khz with more networks it may start causing buffer problems?

Cheers George
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File Type: jpg LyraDorian550.jpg (49.9 KB, 70 views)
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Last edited by georgehifi; 5th May 2014 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 5th May 2014, 03:21 AM   #4
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you might want to look at an old Crown IC150 preamp schematic. They had a Panorama control which would slowly reduce the channel separation and then slowly reverse the channels as you turned the control from one extreme to the other.
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Old 5th May 2014, 03:29 AM   #5
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To give idea how it sounded.
When I did this just with the crude 100ohm bleed resistor, that gave 30db right across the board, I played a Beatles track "Lady Madona" at the start you get a very clangy piano out of the left channel only, sounds not too good, thin sterile can't wait for it to finish.
When the 100ohm bleed resistor was switched in, it moved a little across as it would, but it's lower register filled out and made it sound fuller/richer, and I think it will even get fuller if the 10db of crosstalk at 20hz were introduce as well.

Cheers George
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Old 5th May 2014, 03:44 AM   #6
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Frequency Dependent Panning? - Gearslutz.com

good idea here if you have some recording software....


QUOTE: "You don't need that plugin to do freq. dependent panning.

You could dupe a track, use filters to high pass one and low pass the other and pan them wherever you want.

This is often done in vinyl mastering to get the low frequencies in the middle."
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Last edited by erin; 5th May 2014 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 5th May 2014, 03:55 AM   #7
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May be possible with Audacity, not sure.

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Old 5th May 2014, 04:01 AM   #8
erin is offline erin  Australia
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Krystal should do it.
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Old 5th May 2014, 09:20 PM   #9
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Had a look at these programs websites, but I could not see any crosstalk adjuster.

I have been thinking about my preference above for the simple crosstalk I did with just the 100ohm bleed resistor. If crosstalk is done as to copy the Lyra cartridge graph I posted.
Just look/think at what happens then acoustically in room, you will get a type of loudness switch thing happening when only left or right channel is making sounds, as the level will be the same coming from the original recorded channel but it will be added to by the introduced crosstalk to the other channel, lifting the acoustic levels in those areas, more at 20hz, not as much at 1khz, and again more at 20khz.

Can this be the secrete why analogue lovers prefer vinyl over cd????

Cheers George
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Old 6th May 2014, 01:43 AM   #10
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More food for thought.
Just to add to the above, analogue was recorded on multitrack tape then mixed to the desired sound on the master tape. At no time does this cross talk start to happen till it's replayed on vinyl with a phono cartidge, only then does the L to R crosstalk come into play/sound.


Cheers George
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