Arrrggg Didn't hope that I would need spare parts so fast, but...
and yes it has caused by a bad mod.
Symtoms:
At power on, the VC pin (from the control board to the motorboard) is around 0v and slowy raises to 1.25v. I have checked the input voltages and they seem to be ok (8v, 5v, -5v, -12v)
I guess I fried the TDA5708 and possibly also the TDA5709. Am I way of course or do I need go looking for those ICs? If so were can I find them?
and yes it has caused by a bad mod.
Symtoms:
At power on, the VC pin (from the control board to the motorboard) is around 0v and slowy raises to 1.25v. I have checked the input voltages and they seem to be ok (8v, 5v, -5v, -12v)
I guess I fried the TDA5708 and possibly also the TDA5709. Am I way of course or do I need go looking for those ICs? If so were can I find them?
Hi,
Maybe i can help if you can be a bit more specific about your problem. What is not working, disk spinning, focus or laser ?
Got an old Philips 650 with CDM2 transport and the servicemanual for it. This unit also contains the 57xx chips.
It must be possible to pin-point the defective parts by doing more measuring following the servicemanual.
laser control = 5708,
radial arm control = 5709
disk spinning control = 7210
Reply with some more info and maybe i can help,
Guido
Maybe i can help if you can be a bit more specific about your problem. What is not working, disk spinning, focus or laser ?
Got an old Philips 650 with CDM2 transport and the servicemanual for it. This unit also contains the 57xx chips.
It must be possible to pin-point the defective parts by doing more measuring following the servicemanual.
laser control = 5708,
radial arm control = 5709
disk spinning control = 7210
Reply with some more info and maybe i can help,
Guido
It's the speed control that is the problem.
You can get it spinning if you help it start, but it doesn't get to any usable speed and it's keep spinning.
So it must be the 7210?
Nope, it's just me.
I didn't think that the 7210 had anything to do with spinning. I have an external power supply for my clock and no I did'nt turn it on because it didn't think it had anything to do with spinning.
No clock = no spinning = me felling very stupid.
I think the world would be a safer place if I just went to bed
You can get it spinning if you help it start, but it doesn't get to any usable speed and it's keep spinning.
So it must be the 7210?
Nope, it's just me.
I didn't think that the 7210 had anything to do with spinning. I have an external power supply for my clock and no I did'nt turn it on because it didn't think it had anything to do with spinning.
No clock = no spinning = me felling very stupid.
I think the world would be a safer place if I just went to bed
Lubrification?
Hi Mr. Feedback,
As you have much experience in repairing CDP's I take the liberty to ask for some advice.
After I replaced the laserunit in my Sony CDPX33 ESD I found it was skipping. After examining the steel rod that functions as a glider for the lasercarriage I found it has become dull. I polished it with household Brasso and things went much better.
What do you advice to use as lubrification for the rod? The carriage has brass that fits tightly around the rod.
I used Molykote before but I have the impression it makes the rod dull. Now I am using Teflon, used as a engine motor oil additive.
What lubrification do you advice? Gear box oil???
Thanks in advance,
Happy newyear,
ELSO
Hi Mr. Feedback,
As you have much experience in repairing CDP's I take the liberty to ask for some advice.
After I replaced the laserunit in my Sony CDPX33 ESD I found it was skipping. After examining the steel rod that functions as a glider for the lasercarriage I found it has become dull. I polished it with household Brasso and things went much better.
What do you advice to use as lubrification for the rod? The carriage has brass that fits tightly around the rod.
I used Molykote before but I have the impression it makes the rod dull. Now I am using Teflon, used as a engine motor oil additive.
What lubrification do you advice? Gear box oil???
Thanks in advance,
Happy newyear,
ELSO
Hi Elso,
You didn't ask me but I feel free to answer. I use Break Free Teflon oil. Any good "thin" synthetic oil will do. Avoid grease since it makes problems worse.
A drop is too much ! Just put some on a soft cloth and rub it on the rod. Always clean the rod before lubricating with some alcohol.
Again for those that don't know: DON'T USE ALCOHOL FOR CLEANING THE LASER !!! Just to prevent you from cleaning off the coating of the lens.
My Capslock isn't stuck but I meet wiseguys every now and then that tell me to use alcohol. I know better.
Regards,
Jean-Paul
You didn't ask me but I feel free to answer. I use Break Free Teflon oil. Any good "thin" synthetic oil will do. Avoid grease since it makes problems worse.
A drop is too much ! Just put some on a soft cloth and rub it on the rod. Always clean the rod before lubricating with some alcohol.
Again for those that don't know: DON'T USE ALCOHOL FOR CLEANING THE LASER !!! Just to prevent you from cleaning off the coating of the lens.
My Capslock isn't stuck but I meet wiseguys every now and then that tell me to use alcohol. I know better.
Regards,
Jean-Paul
Easy Soloution.....
Hi Elso,
I have used Dexron auto transmission fluid (red auto gearbox oil) for lubricating small mechanisms for 15 years now and it has worked fine for me.
A drop on each sintered bushing that runs on the rod is plenty.
On most Jap mechanisms, the laser assy has a pair of fingers that contact the sub-chassis on the side opposite to the sled rod.
On some sub chassis there is a thin plastic plate fitted that warps and causes binding.
The soloution is to remove the laser pickup and file away (0.5mm or so) the lower of the two fingers.
If you remove the last gear (the one that couples to the rack gear on the pickup), the laser pickup should slide freely end to end when the chassis is tilted.
Hope this helps,
Eric.
Hi Elso,
I have used Dexron auto transmission fluid (red auto gearbox oil) for lubricating small mechanisms for 15 years now and it has worked fine for me.
A drop on each sintered bushing that runs on the rod is plenty.
On most Jap mechanisms, the laser assy has a pair of fingers that contact the sub-chassis on the side opposite to the sled rod.
On some sub chassis there is a thin plastic plate fitted that warps and causes binding.
The soloution is to remove the laser pickup and file away (0.5mm or so) the lower of the two fingers.
If you remove the last gear (the one that couples to the rack gear on the pickup), the laser pickup should slide freely end to end when the chassis is tilted.
Hope this helps,
Eric.
Thanks
Hi Eric,
Thanks but I am not sure I understand about the "finger" touching the subchassis.
I have a linear motor in my Sony. It works without toothed wheels. But I learned from my time as a repairman that the subchassis of the laserunit sould not touch the main chassis.
I will try the oil you recommended.
Hi Eric,
Thanks but I am not sure I understand about the "finger" touching the subchassis.
I have a linear motor in my Sony. It works without toothed wheels. But I learned from my time as a repairman that the subchassis of the laserunit sould not touch the main chassis.
I will try the oil you recommended.
Still Failing on "Trackjump"
Hi Eric (Mrfeedback),
Things are going nuch better now but I still have a serious problem with a large trackjump f.a. going from track 1 to track 40. If succeeding it takes too much time but in most instances it simply fails giving the <I>no disc</I> message on the display. Could it be a rotten spindle motor? I never replaced a spindle motor in my repaircarreer but I worked mostly on brand new units.
I just sprayed the brushes with tuner 600 and for the time being it is working! I noticed that the motor is accelerating instead of breaking with the above mentioned trackjump.
Thanks a million for the advice.
Hi Eric (Mrfeedback),
Things are going nuch better now but I still have a serious problem with a large trackjump f.a. going from track 1 to track 40. If succeeding it takes too much time but in most instances it simply fails giving the <I>no disc</I> message on the display. Could it be a rotten spindle motor? I never replaced a spindle motor in my repaircarreer but I worked mostly on brand new units.
I just sprayed the brushes with tuner 600 and for the time being it is working! I noticed that the motor is accelerating instead of breaking with the above mentioned trackjump.
Thanks a million for the advice.
Elso,
The disc is read from inside to outside with more or less the same amount of data in one turn. So on the outside the info on the disk is not so dense.
To get the same flow of data to the decoder, the disc needs to spin faster on the outside. Going from 1 to 40, the disk will start spinning faster.
Greetings,
Guido B.
The disc is read from inside to outside with more or less the same amount of data in one turn. So on the outside the info on the disk is not so dense.
To get the same flow of data to the decoder, the disc needs to spin faster on the outside. Going from 1 to 40, the disk will start spinning faster.
Greetings,
Guido B.
Slightly Wrong Info.....
Hi Elso,
"Thanks but I am not sure I understand about the "finger" touching the subchassis.
I have a linear motor in my Sony."
Ok, the advice I gave was for mechs with one rail, and rack gear drive.
In your case, with two rails and linear motor, same deal applies.
Clean (isopropyl) the rails, and relube with ATF, and check that the sled will travel end to end smoothly by tilting the mech.
Take a look at solder joints in tracking/focus servo driver stages, and resolder as required.
Ditto power supplies and regulator stages.
The symptom you give indicates loss of tracking, and then disc spin up (overspeed).
Mark all trimpots carefully with a pen, and try increasing tracking gain and laser power a little.
Take a look at the HF waveform with a CRO, and fine tune the servo gains and offsets for cleanest HF waveform.
Is the spin motor standard DC brush motor, or electronic DD motor ?.
Eric.
Hi Elso,
"Thanks but I am not sure I understand about the "finger" touching the subchassis.
I have a linear motor in my Sony."
Ok, the advice I gave was for mechs with one rail, and rack gear drive.
In your case, with two rails and linear motor, same deal applies.
Clean (isopropyl) the rails, and relube with ATF, and check that the sled will travel end to end smoothly by tilting the mech.
Take a look at solder joints in tracking/focus servo driver stages, and resolder as required.
Ditto power supplies and regulator stages.
The symptom you give indicates loss of tracking, and then disc spin up (overspeed).
Mark all trimpots carefully with a pen, and try increasing tracking gain and laser power a little.
Take a look at the HF waveform with a CRO, and fine tune the servo gains and offsets for cleanest HF waveform.
Is the spin motor standard DC brush motor, or electronic DD motor ?.
Eric.
Spindle Motor Malfunctioning
Hi Eric,
Thanks a lot for the help.
The spindle motor is a standard DC brush motor. Well standard? I checked for the motor in four abandoned players but these had other models. Today I will order a new motor.
Eyepattern from the laser is abosolutely perfect and focus and tracking gain adjustment don't change it. I also checked the solderjoints and powersupplies. The lasercarriage has very low friction now as it moves when the player is tilted only a few degrees.
BTW I have only one rail. The other end of the carriage rest on a wheel!
Guido, I am sorry, your are totally wrong. At track one the disc spins at highest speed at track 70 it spins at lowest speed!
Hi Eric,
Thanks a lot for the help.
The spindle motor is a standard DC brush motor. Well standard? I checked for the motor in four abandoned players but these had other models. Today I will order a new motor.
Eyepattern from the laser is abosolutely perfect and focus and tracking gain adjustment don't change it. I also checked the solderjoints and powersupplies. The lasercarriage has very low friction now as it moves when the player is tilted only a few degrees.
BTW I have only one rail. The other end of the carriage rest on a wheel!
Guido, I am sorry, your are totally wrong. At track one the disc spins at highest speed at track 70 it spins at lowest speed!
Maybe This Helps.....
Elso, you can fix the spin motor, usually.
The normal failure mode is that the commutator goes noisey contacts.
The soloution is as follows - load a disc into the mech.
Disconnect motor wires and connect motor to a DC supply (6V or so) momentarily until speed is up to normal high speed (500 rpm) and then quickly reverse the polarity so that the disc slows down and then reverses direction back upto 500 rpm or so, and reverse the supply again - a reversing switch is a good tool here.
Do this spin-up and reversal at least several times to clear and renew the commutator contacts, and you should be ok.
The commutator contacts go sour due to low currents and low voltages in normal operation.
RF-310 motors and a few others commonly go bad like this, and the symptoms are no disc rotation due to motor parking on a bad spot, or especially in Pioneer players, slow spin up to speed and therefore no TOC loading, or if it does play, when getting to end of disc (200 rpm) speed stability suffers and the buffer memory empties giving gated audio output, mistracking, or the player spits the dummy and displays 'no disc'.
Eric.
Elso, you can fix the spin motor, usually.
The normal failure mode is that the commutator goes noisey contacts.
The soloution is as follows - load a disc into the mech.
Disconnect motor wires and connect motor to a DC supply (6V or so) momentarily until speed is up to normal high speed (500 rpm) and then quickly reverse the polarity so that the disc slows down and then reverses direction back upto 500 rpm or so, and reverse the supply again - a reversing switch is a good tool here.
Do this spin-up and reversal at least several times to clear and renew the commutator contacts, and you should be ok.
The commutator contacts go sour due to low currents and low voltages in normal operation.
RF-310 motors and a few others commonly go bad like this, and the symptoms are no disc rotation due to motor parking on a bad spot, or especially in Pioneer players, slow spin up to speed and therefore no TOC loading, or if it does play, when getting to end of disc (200 rpm) speed stability suffers and the buffer memory empties giving gated audio output, mistracking, or the player spits the dummy and displays 'no disc'.
Eric.
Elso, others,
Sorry, wrote something without checking... You are right!
You most probably know this, but to set things right for others who are mislead by my earlier comment:
Density is equal (pits have the same size) on the whole of the disk. Therefore the disk needs to spin
slower at the edge (one rev gives more pits/data on the outside than the inside).
This way a constant transfer rate is obtained. Inside ~539 RMP, outside ~210 RPM.
Will check things a better in the future. Can't help you on the Sony, i have no experience with those
(only my own philips).
Happy New Year!
Guido B.
Sorry, wrote something without checking... You are right!
You most probably know this, but to set things right for others who are mislead by my earlier comment:
Density is equal (pits have the same size) on the whole of the disk. Therefore the disk needs to spin
slower at the edge (one rev gives more pits/data on the outside than the inside).
This way a constant transfer rate is obtained. Inside ~539 RMP, outside ~210 RPM.
Will check things a better in the future. Can't help you on the Sony, i have no experience with those
(only my own philips).
Happy New Year!
Guido B.
After Thoughts.....
Elso, can you post a pix of the mech and pcb ? - then I know which machine we are talking about - the model number does not ring a bell right now, but that does not mean anything - mech and pcb pictures will.
Anyway, if your machine has a PLL oscillator coil with adjustable ferrite slug for center frequency, then if the free run frequency is too far out, then you will get symptoms like you describe - 'no disc' when track jumping - dodgy spin motor can cause this too - see above post.
Another method is a PLL trimpot, and some machines have no adjustment.
If you need to adjust PLL center frequency, ask and I'll tell you how.
Eric.
Elso, can you post a pix of the mech and pcb ? - then I know which machine we are talking about - the model number does not ring a bell right now, but that does not mean anything - mech and pcb pictures will.
Anyway, if your machine has a PLL oscillator coil with adjustable ferrite slug for center frequency, then if the free run frequency is too far out, then you will get symptoms like you describe - 'no disc' when track jumping - dodgy spin motor can cause this too - see above post.
Another method is a PLL trimpot, and some machines have no adjustment.
If you need to adjust PLL center frequency, ask and I'll tell you how.
Eric.
Replaced Spindle Motor
Hi Eric,
I ordered and replaced the spindle motor. It came with a large chunck of gray plastic and I had to break of two pillars to make it fit. It was for the CDP-X339ES. And I ordered for the CDP-X33ES or CDP-X333ES.
The track jump is still not fast enough but it reaches the track without going into error.
Another very weird phenomenon occurred:
When cold and power applied the player goes into play mode on power on (autoplaymode) but runs 10 seconds at <B><I>half</B></I> speed; then speeds up and sound goes dead, then a loud noise comes from the speakers and eventually it sounds OK in the middle of track 1.
When the CDP is on for a few minutes this strange behavior does not occur. I suspect the PLL, but how do I get it better?
Even more weird: sound is <B>much</B> better than with the old laser. Both are KSS271A.
I am sorry I have no picture. This CDP does not have a adjustable PLL. It uses CXA1372 and CXD2500Q
Hi Eric,
I ordered and replaced the spindle motor. It came with a large chunck of gray plastic and I had to break of two pillars to make it fit. It was for the CDP-X339ES. And I ordered for the CDP-X33ES or CDP-X333ES.
The track jump is still not fast enough but it reaches the track without going into error.
Another very weird phenomenon occurred:
When cold and power applied the player goes into play mode on power on (autoplaymode) but runs 10 seconds at <B><I>half</B></I> speed; then speeds up and sound goes dead, then a loud noise comes from the speakers and eventually it sounds OK in the middle of track 1.
When the CDP is on for a few minutes this strange behavior does not occur. I suspect the PLL, but how do I get it better?
Even more weird: sound is <B>much</B> better than with the old laser. Both are KSS271A.
I am sorry I have no picture. This CDP does not have a adjustable PLL. It uses CXA1372 and CXD2500Q
"This CDP does not have a adjustable PLL."
Ok, this is not the problem then.
Elso, in my experience I do not trust soldering on the flatpack smd packages, and resoldering these has cured a lot of problems for me in the past.
Perhaps you need to check and adjust servo DC offsets, and maybe increase tracking and focus gains.
Apart from that I have not seen the fault that you describe.
Eric.
Ok, this is not the problem then.
Elso, in my experience I do not trust soldering on the flatpack smd packages, and resoldering these has cured a lot of problems for me in the past.
Perhaps you need to check and adjust servo DC offsets, and maybe increase tracking and focus gains.
Apart from that I have not seen the fault that you describe.
Eric.
Resoldering
Thanks a lot for the help. This is also my experience. Very often these SMD IC's are badly soldered. I also have the impression that the soldertype used by Sony gets worse over time. It looses its shine and when heated it does not flow. Weird. I repaired my TV-set by resoldering . Will see if it helps my CDP. Thanks again.
Hi Eric ,mrfeedback said:
Thanks a lot for the help. This is also my experience. Very often these SMD IC's are badly soldered. I also have the impression that the soldertype used by Sony gets worse over time. It looses its shine and when heated it does not flow. Weird. I repaired my TV-set by resoldering . Will see if it helps my CDP. Thanks again.
No Disc it says
Hi all,
I have a old brand new vcd cd mp3 player that when power on, insert a cd, close the tray, then the cd disc only spin a third of a turn and stop spinning. The the laser assembly was moving up and down and then the display says no disc.
I have used 4 of 1.5V AA batteries to test the spinning motor and it spins ok. Where else I should look into to find the fault.
Thanks,
Chris
Hi all,
I have a old brand new vcd cd mp3 player that when power on, insert a cd, close the tray, then the cd disc only spin a third of a turn and stop spinning. The the laser assembly was moving up and down and then the display says no disc.
I have used 4 of 1.5V AA batteries to test the spinning motor and it spins ok. Where else I should look into to find the fault.
Thanks,
Chris
Another Happy Customer....
No wuckin' furries, my pleasure and glad to be of help.
BTW if you resolder that chip with say 96S you will get a different (I reckon nicer) sound and LMP stuffs it up (imo).
Eric.
Sorry to give you more homework.
Hey, now in addition to tuning televisions and vcrs by telephone, I can now repair CD players by internet.Elso Kwak said:Hi Eric,
I resoldered the PLL lowpassfilterside of the CXD2500Q.
I exorcized the crazyness!
Thanks a lot!
No wuckin' furries, my pleasure and glad to be of help.
BTW if you resolder that chip with say 96S you will get a different (I reckon nicer) sound and LMP stuffs it up (imo).
Eric.
Sorry to give you more homework.
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