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Old 15th February 2002, 12:22 PM   #1
alfsch is offline alfsch  Germany
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Lightbulb Sound different: recorded CDR to original CD...

Sound difference: recorded CDR to original CD...

I found that most CDRs sound not the same, when compared on a good equ. to the orig. (pressed) CD , sound is most times darker, seems to have more bass and less room / hi-range, or more distortion in high frequ.. Data is the same, when tested, so i searched for the reason and found different jitter levels, when playing back these CDRs. I tested different CDR recorded on different recorders: for reducing distortion i added supply filter on +5/+12V and put the recorder to test external to the PC to isolate from vibrations (hard disk, fans in PC) and run only on 2x speed; rec. qualitity was better now, but still different to orig. (some `high end ` CDs used for this).
After many tests i found : LiteON LTR16101 best recorder, on Verbatim DataLivePlus (dark blue); sound was now about equal to original, on many even better (less C1 errors may be also important) than standard orig. CDs;
--> anyone made similar tests?
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Old 17th February 2002, 02:09 PM   #2
ALW is offline ALW  United Kingdom
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Default Very interesting

alfsch,

I've done a few digital copies of CD's and like you found the data the same, yet sound different.

Jitter was my explanation, but I had no means of proving it - what did you use to determine this.

I' ve wondered about running the recorder from a much quieter PSU, and maybe changing the clock, assuming it's generated inside the recorder.

I assume this is the case as data gets read into the recorder buffer, then clocked out by the player - is this correct?

I'd love more details of your results, I've given up using copies finding them far less enjoyable.

Andy.
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Old 17th February 2002, 06:41 PM   #3
alfsch is offline alfsch  Germany
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Default CDRs

andy,
i have an (old) Sony cdp970, still with analog laser/servo, and circuit dia; so i looked at the analog (called eye-) pattern from the laser; here you can see on a scope the pattern, amplitude , noise..and the timing = jitter; this confirmed hearing tests, because newer cds are better than some of the early days, there recorders had more jitter than today, definitly; the recording with the LiteON burner having so low jitter, that its comparable to the orig.cd, and this you can hear also; jitter is many ns, not ps like in the clock , so i think there is a problem in making a sharp hole burning with the laser...this depends on the burner; now my CDRs sound about equal or sometimes better than the origs; the psu for the burner and vibration when recording is important;
clock inside (i think) is good, when looking at the actual jitter of many ns, but didnt make tests (because had no circ.dia. of the burners);
alf
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Old 10th March 2002, 12:54 PM   #4
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I think many people agree that sometimes cd-rs sound worse but I canīt explain why. Is it due to jitter, due to bit errors or the quality of the laser.
Maybe itīs only psycholgical...
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Old 10th March 2002, 02:23 PM   #5
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Default AC/DC Sounds Better

I copied an AC/DC LIVE recoding to blank cd that is dark like an original playstation game disc.
This disc is a little nicer and calmer sounding and less glaring highs WRT original and normal copy on several cd players, I find.
I haven't had a look at the eye pattern, but probably less servo noise generated, maybe, ala green pen etc.

Regards, Eric.
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Old 23rd March 2002, 08:49 AM   #6
richt is offline richt  Puerto Rico
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hi

todays cd recorders are very jittery due to switching power supplies as phillips. poor clock oscillators & noisy spindle motors.

the higher the recording speed ,situation gets worst.
with the today price fighting battles, its hard to find good gear.

for hi quality sound never never use swithcing power supplies.
teorically they suppose to be cleaner ! no no no way.

digital & analog circuits should be fed apart (dual regulated)

this info is based by modifications that we made

thanks
richt
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