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Old 15th November 2003, 09:03 PM   #1
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Default Behringer equipment?

I have been using a Behringer DEQ2496 for a few months now, and it works extremely well using digital i/o. I use it for room correction, much like the TacT audio rcs system. I use the DEQ2496 with a seperate hifi DAC. I watend to know if anyone had experience with the ULTRADRIVE PRO DCX2496 digital crossover? This unit looks very appealing but I am a little concerned about using the built in DACs for a hi-fi system as they are primarily designed for sound reinforcement. I am also curious if there would be any performance hit from using the balanced XLR outputs conected to single ended home equipment (like an XLR to RCA adapter)?
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Old 15th November 2003, 09:22 PM   #2
bknauss is offline bknauss  United States
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I've seen some car audio guys using these units. Its not top of the line pro audio stuff, but its a great for the person who wants an upgrade but doesn't have thousands and thousands of dollars to spend.

I don't think there's an audible difference if you use an XLR->RCA adapter.
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Old 15th November 2003, 09:49 PM   #3
usekgb is offline usekgb  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by bknauss
Its not top of the line pro audio stuff, but its a great for the person who wants an upgrade but doesn't have thousands and thousands of dollars to spend.
Actually, it's pretty bottom of the line pro stuff. Also, Behringer does business by stealing other company's intellectual property, reverse engineering it, manufacturing it off-shore, and selling it back to the consumer at a steeply discounted price. You would be amazed t how many Behringer products are EXACT copies of other company's equipment. By doing business this way, Behringer is hurting many reputable audio companies by forcing them to stoop to Behringer's level. Many audio companies are now forced to produce cheaper products to compete. These reductions in price come from less R&D, lower quality components, lower wages for employees, and an overall decline in equipment quality.

Now, if you feel comfortable buying this stuff, go ahead. You are welcome to tell my son why Christmas won't be so great this year. Daddy doesn't make as much money because DBX only pays minimum wage.

Quote:
Originally posted by bknauss
I don't think there's an audible difference if you use an XLR->RCA adapter.
There is no audible difference using this adapter. Just make sure that you ground pin 3 so you don't have an antenna hanging around in your cable.

Cheers,
Zach
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Old 17th November 2003, 03:37 AM   #4
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woah. First of all I apoligize for ruining your son's christmas. My behringer digital eq works really well, and i don't think its possible that it degrades the sound because i only use digital input and digital output. I don't actually know of any competing products, i hope its not a rip off. generally though, the consensus is that using a behringer analog staqe (DAC) might be bad where fidelity is key? Thats too bad because I really wanted to use it as a cheap digital crossover.
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Old 17th November 2003, 04:12 AM   #5
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I duno...I find Behringer quite good for my money...and I haven really ventured into Bi-amping yet...I know I will like it...but my pocket's not deep enough...even with Behringer...hehe
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Old 17th November 2003, 04:40 AM   #6
Vadim is offline Vadim  Canada
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I have both, - DCX2496 and DEQ2496. I have them connected via AES/EBU link. I must say that I observed only one deficiency with DCX, - it was the flaky display, which would lock up and/or mar when the parameters were changed in real time. This problem was solved once I downloaded the software upgrade from the Behringer’s site and everything is great at this time.

As for the sound quality, my experience is that the DCX is quite transparent, providing that you take care of the amplitude of the analog input signal, - it needs to be at a ‘pro’ level of about 8-10 Volts. If you use AES/EBU then there are no such concerns.

I know that there were opinions expressed alluding that DCX is somehow deficient in this department, but my measurements indicate that its un-weighted THD+N is better then 16 bits. In other words in a Blind Test you will be extremely hard pressed to tell it apart from any other competently design box. I ‘heard’ the dbx260 and the Rane product, although not at the same time, and I have no memory of them being superior or inferior to the DCX. Admittedly the test was not scientific, but still it certainly ‘told’ me that no product really stood out.
Quote:
Behringer does business by stealing other company's intellectual property, reverse engineering it, manufacturing it off-shore, and selling it back to the consumer at a steeply discounted price
Now, I am somewhat surprised by the statements that Behringer somehow ‘steals’ from other companies, like the dBX. I have no idea what could Behringer possibly steal in order to design the DCX2496. It is, after all, a fully digital box, so what makes it ‘tick’ is the software. How do you steal the software?

Zach, are you suggesting that Behringer engineers decompile the dBX code? I find this highly doubtful. The code and the processor must go ‘hand in hand’. Considering that dBX uses completely different DSP chip, I do not see how Behringer violates anything here. The Digital filter architecture is pretty straight forward and it is not proprietary.
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Old 17th November 2003, 11:08 AM   #7
petervv is offline petervv  Netherlands
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Default DCX2496

hi guys,

here's my 2 cents:

- I own both a ultracurve 8024 and a DCX2496
- both are great products from a functional point of view
- both sound decent (if used correctly, using full swing of inputs and outputs, or digital I/O)
- I modified the clock circuit of the 8024 and added output transformers, these mods made a huge difference. Sound is now comparible to a good (not great) DAC.
- My DCX2496 is still standard, sound is decent, no noise or other measurable defects, but..............it sounds flat as a cheap CD player.
- I'll modify the clock circuit in the near future
- I'll probably change the output circuits as I don't need balanced outputs and don't like all the cheap opamps and capacitors.

kind regards, Peter
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Old 17th November 2003, 05:32 PM   #8
RobM is offline RobM  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by usekgb
Actually, it's pretty bottom of the line pro stuff. Also, Behringer does business by stealing other company's intellectual property, reverse engineering it, manufacturing it off-shore, and selling it back to the consumer at a steeply discounted price. You would be amazed t how many Behringer products are EXACT copies of other company's equipment. By doing business this way, Behringer is hurting many reputable audio companies by forcing them to stoop to Behringer's level. Many audio companies are now forced to produce cheaper products to compete. These reductions in price come from less R&D, lower quality components, lower wages for employees, and an overall decline in equipment quality.
You'd be right in saying that a lot of their products are "knock-offs", but I can't think of any that are EXACT copies (i.e. down to the circuit/mechanical level). They look alike, and share features, and pretty much copy competitive products at a lower price point (with lower build quality and cheaper parts).

Quote:
Now, if you feel comfortable buying this stuff, go ahead. You are welcome to tell my son why Christmas won't be so great this year. Daddy doesn't make as much money because DBX only pays minimum wage.
I dunno, I've seen plenty of dbx stuff made in China (check out where their analog XOs and EQs are made). I have a feeling the people making those pieces aren't getting paid the equivalent of a US minimum wage.
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Old 18th November 2003, 04:39 AM   #9
usekgb is offline usekgb  United States
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DBX is about 15 miles from where I live. Most of the people there that do assembly are people with no background in electonics and are paid very poorly for the work they do.
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Old 19th November 2003, 04:22 AM   #10
dtkky is offline dtkky  Singapore
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Hi Petervv,
I would be interested in how you modified your 8024. I just bought a behringer ultramatch SRC2496 to go between the cd transport and ultracurve. This is to enable SPDIF to AES/EBU conversion and upsample to 48 kHz, thus enabling the ultracurve to process evrything at that rate. The ultramatch also has a wordclock in. Any use for that?
Thanks
David Tan
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