I have been using a Behringer DEQ2496 for a few months now, and it works extremely well using digital i/o. I use it for room correction, much like the TacT audio rcs system. I use the DEQ2496 with a seperate hifi DAC. I watend to know if anyone had experience with the ULTRADRIVE PRO DCX2496 digital crossover? This unit looks very appealing but I am a little concerned about using the built in DACs for a hi-fi system as they are primarily designed for sound reinforcement. I am also curious if there would be any performance hit from using the balanced XLR outputs conected to single ended home equipment (like an XLR to RCA adapter)?
bknauss said:
Actually, it's pretty bottom of the line pro stuff. Also, Behringer does business by stealing other company's intellectual property, reverse engineering it, manufacturing it off-shore, and selling it back to the consumer at a steeply discounted price. You would be amazed t how many Behringer products are EXACT copies of other company's equipment. By doing business this way, Behringer is hurting many reputable audio companies by forcing them to stoop to Behringer's level. Many audio companies are now forced to produce cheaper products to compete. These reductions in price come from less R&D, lower quality components, lower wages for employees, and an overall decline in equipment quality.
Now, if you feel comfortable buying this stuff, go ahead. You are welcome to tell my son why Christmas won't be so great this year. Daddy doesn't make as much money because DBX only pays minimum wage.
bknauss said:
There is no audible difference using this adapter. Just make sure that you ground pin 3 so you don't have an antenna hanging around in your cable.
Cheers,
Zach
woah. First of all I apoligize for ruining your son's christmas. My behringer digital eq works really well, and i don't think its possible that it degrades the sound because i only use digital input and digital output. I don't actually know of any competing products, i hope its not a rip off. generally though, the consensus is that using a behringer analog staqe (DAC) might be bad where fidelity is key? Thats too bad because I really wanted to use it as a cheap digital crossover.
I have both, - DCX2496 and DEQ2496. I have them connected via AES/EBU link. I must say that I observed only one deficiency with DCX, - it was the flaky display, which would lock up and/or mar when the parameters were changed in real time. This problem was solved once I downloaded the software upgrade from the Behringer’s site and everything is great at this time.
As for the sound quality, my experience is that the DCX is quite transparent, providing that you take care of the amplitude of the analog input signal, - it needs to be at a ‘pro’ level of about 8-10 Volts. If you use AES/EBU then there are no such concerns.
I know that there were opinions expressed alluding that DCX is somehow deficient in this department, but my measurements indicate that its un-weighted THD+N is better then 16 bits. In other words in a Blind Test you will be extremely hard pressed to tell it apart from any other competently design box. I ‘heard’ the dbx260 and the Rane product, although not at the same time, and I have no memory of them being superior or inferior to the DCX. Admittedly the test was not scientific, but still it certainly ‘told’ me that no product really stood out.
Zach, are you suggesting that Behringer engineers decompile the dBX code? I find this highly doubtful. The code and the processor must go ‘hand in hand’. Considering that dBX uses completely different DSP chip, I do not see how Behringer violates anything here. The Digital filter architecture is pretty straight forward and it is not proprietary.
As for the sound quality, my experience is that the DCX is quite transparent, providing that you take care of the amplitude of the analog input signal, - it needs to be at a ‘pro’ level of about 8-10 Volts. If you use AES/EBU then there are no such concerns.
I know that there were opinions expressed alluding that DCX is somehow deficient in this department, but my measurements indicate that its un-weighted THD+N is better then 16 bits. In other words in a Blind Test you will be extremely hard pressed to tell it apart from any other competently design box. I ‘heard’ the dbx260 and the Rane product, although not at the same time, and I have no memory of them being superior or inferior to the DCX. Admittedly the test was not scientific, but still it certainly ‘told’ me that no product really stood out.
Now, I am somewhat surprised by the statements that Behringer somehow ‘steals’ from other companies, like the dBX. I have no idea what could Behringer possibly steal in order to design the DCX2496. It is, after all, a fully digital box, so what makes it ‘tick’ is the software. How do you steal the software?
Zach, are you suggesting that Behringer engineers decompile the dBX code? I find this highly doubtful. The code and the processor must go ‘hand in hand’. Considering that dBX uses completely different DSP chip, I do not see how Behringer violates anything here. The Digital filter architecture is pretty straight forward and it is not proprietary.
DCX2496
hi guys,
here's my 2 cents:
- I own both a ultracurve 8024 and a DCX2496
- both are great products from a functional point of view
- both sound decent (if used correctly, using full swing of inputs and outputs, or digital I/O)
- I modified the clock circuit of the 8024 and added output transformers, these mods made a huge difference. Sound is now comparible to a good (not great) DAC.
- My DCX2496 is still standard, sound is decent, no noise or other measurable defects, but..............it sounds flat as a cheap CD player.
- I'll modify the clock circuit in the near future
- I'll probably change the output circuits as I don't need balanced outputs and don't like all the cheap opamps and capacitors.
kind regards, Peter
hi guys,
here's my 2 cents:
- I own both a ultracurve 8024 and a DCX2496
- both are great products from a functional point of view
- both sound decent (if used correctly, using full swing of inputs and outputs, or digital I/O)
- I modified the clock circuit of the 8024 and added output transformers, these mods made a huge difference. Sound is now comparible to a good (not great) DAC.
- My DCX2496 is still standard, sound is decent, no noise or other measurable defects, but..............it sounds flat as a cheap CD player.
- I'll modify the clock circuit in the near future
- I'll probably change the output circuits as I don't need balanced outputs and don't like all the cheap opamps and capacitors.
kind regards, Peter
usekgb said:
You'd be right in saying that a lot of their products are "knock-offs", but I can't think of any that are EXACT copies (i.e. down to the circuit/mechanical level). They look alike, and share features, and pretty much copy competitive products at a lower price point (with lower build quality and cheaper parts).
I dunno, I've seen plenty of dbx stuff made in China (check out where their analog XOs and EQs are made). I have a feeling the people making those pieces aren't getting paid the equivalent of a US minimum wage.
Hi Petervv,
I would be interested in how you modified your 8024. I just bought a behringer ultramatch SRC2496 to go between the cd transport and ultracurve. This is to enable SPDIF to AES/EBU conversion and upsample to 48 kHz, thus enabling the ultracurve to process evrything at that rate. The ultramatch also has a wordclock in. Any use for that?
Thanks
David Tan
I would be interested in how you modified your 8024. I just bought a behringer ultramatch SRC2496 to go between the cd transport and ultracurve. This is to enable SPDIF to AES/EBU conversion and upsample to 48 kHz, thus enabling the ultracurve to process evrything at that rate. The ultramatch also has a wordclock in. Any use for that?
Thanks
David Tan
dtkky said:
Hi David,
Should have informed you when I met you in Singapore last month. Peter and I meet once and a while (we live quite close), he added one of my modules, called XO DAC, in his Behringer. It is a job requiring precision (SMD) but I have a description with photo's available.
result is stunning, by the way, but only works on either 44.1 or 48 kHz based samples. If you use CD player only, I expect no problems in your application.
Peter is looking at modding the 2496
Ciao
dtkky said:
Wordclock is a wonderful thing. To use it, you need a master clock for your whole system. Something like the Aardclock or the new Apogee clock would do nicely. Anyway, send an output from your master clock to the wordclock input on each piece of digital gear that you are using. This locks all of your digital clocks up to that same sync. This reduces jitter, and clock mis-timings and generally improves the sound of everything. Give it a try.......You'll like it.
Cheers,
Zach
I'll second the thought that Behringer is really bottom-of-the-barrel pro gear. I've enjoyed it when it works, but in the past year I've had two Behringer devices fail in the first week of operation. The first was a DSP8024; I bought a pair of them, and one lost its mind in a few days (these were both in the same rack in the same chain). The most recent is an SRC2496, which I got for Christmas. I was using it 'til yesterday, when it froze (nothing coming out of the digital or analog outs). I power-cycled and now it does nothing at all, and each time I cycle power it can come up with different LED indicators on (not always the same), many of them conflicting (pretty funny to see all of the sample rate, word length and source LEDs on at the same time). In both instances, these were in 4U racks with no amplifiers or other big heat producers. Power is coming from a nice UPS and then through a line conditioner; I'm fairly certain there isn't a power issue here, especially since none of the other gear (including identical units) has had trouble. My guess is little to no QC and burn-in at Behringer. I'm reluctant to open up the SRC2496 and look for a toasted voltage regulator or the like, since it's obviously still under warranty.
I wanted the SRC2496 unit to get rid of the remnants of noise from the DAC in my PC audio card in my home office, but it looks like I'll go back to living with the noise and pick up a better external converter at some point (maybe another Flying Cow).
Neither one of the units that died saw any road use. From my experience, I would never trust Behringer gear on the road. Give me dbx, ART or one of many others for road use, I'd lose my marbles if I had main or monitor EQs fail on the road.
The one piece of Behringer gear that hasn't failed on me is the MX882, which isn't surprising... all analog, simple device.
I wanted the SRC2496 unit to get rid of the remnants of noise from the DAC in my PC audio card in my home office, but it looks like I'll go back to living with the noise and pick up a better external converter at some point (maybe another Flying Cow).
Neither one of the units that died saw any road use. From my experience, I would never trust Behringer gear on the road. Give me dbx, ART or one of many others for road use, I'd lose my marbles if I had main or monitor EQs fail on the road.
The one piece of Behringer gear that hasn't failed on me is the MX882, which isn't surprising... all analog, simple device.
Hi Zach,
I know of Aardvark, but don't own any of their products. The particular application I had for the SRC2496 is on FreeBSD, just for listening in my home office. I haven't checked, but I suspect opensound doesn't support Aardvark's h/w. They do support m-audio's stuff (and some other Envy-based cards), but I don't really need a new audio card here, just an external DAC (on-board S/PDIF works fine for listening in my home office; no recording going on here and the listening isn't critical; low cost and rackmounting are the main criteria). I like the Flying Cow from m-audio in this application, but it's less rack-friendly.
I know of Aardvark, but don't own any of their products. The particular application I had for the SRC2496 is on FreeBSD, just for listening in my home office. I haven't checked, but I suspect opensound doesn't support Aardvark's h/w. They do support m-audio's stuff (and some other Envy-based cards), but I don't really need a new audio card here, just an external DAC (on-board S/PDIF works fine for listening in my home office; no recording going on here and the listening isn't critical; low cost and rackmounting are the main criteria). I like the Flying Cow from m-audio in this application, but it's less rack-friendly.
The Flying Cow is actually a great little piece of equipment. M-Audio has come a long way in the past few years. You should be very happy with the Flying Cow for your application. The only reason I asked you about Aardvark is because they are in Ann Arbor. That's where I was born too. I've always wanted to check out the Aardavark facilities when I go to Michigan, but I never get a chance.
Cheers,
Zach
Cheers,
Zach
Here is a thread from the "Loudspeaker" forum on the DCX2496:Yoda said:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15943
I've been usung a DSP8024 for over a year for room EQ, mainly to integrate a sub woofer with main speakers . To get it working right I had to upgrade the EPROM which Behringer sent out for free. It is dirt cheap as audio goes. Yes, used analog in -- analog out, I realize (intelectually) that the noise floor even at best in not as low as one might care for. Yes, it's a pain in the butt to figure out how to set it up and get the settings correct/acceptable. Yes, it's cheapness robs me and it of much audiophile chachet.
However, the bottom line is this: when listening to music my system sounds better (A LOT BETTER) with the unit switched in than when I switch it out. In terms of importance to the actual listening quality of the experience (rather than just intellectualizing over specs and cost) it is second only to the speakers themselves with regard to which peice of gear contributes most.
However, the bottom line is this: when listening to music my system sounds better (A LOT BETTER) with the unit switched in than when I switch it out. In terms of importance to the actual listening quality of the experience (rather than just intellectualizing over specs and cost) it is second only to the speakers themselves with regard to which peice of gear contributes most.
Otoh
On The other Hand:
If you upgrade the lowgrade aspects of something like the Behringer DCX2496.. well then.. you might just end up with something tht exceeds the rest that are out there in terms of overall quality. Now, is that so bad a thing? For the 6 hours or so, and the $30-100 (depending on how deep you want to go) in parts?
Behringer ain't so bad when you do like a proper DIY'er does, which is to assess a item as to how well it can be upgraded as opposed to how it is executed by the manufacturer in terms of being left stock.
On The other Hand:
If you upgrade the lowgrade aspects of something like the Behringer DCX2496.. well then.. you might just end up with something tht exceeds the rest that are out there in terms of overall quality. Now, is that so bad a thing? For the 6 hours or so, and the $30-100 (depending on how deep you want to go) in parts?
Behringer ain't so bad when you do like a proper DIY'er does, which is to assess a item as to how well it can be upgraded as opposed to how it is executed by the manufacturer in terms of being left stock.
Maybe it wasn't so clear from my first message...
There's nothing inherently wrong with the functionality of a DSP8024, DEQ2496, SRC2496, or many other pieces of Behringer gear. Often that far outweighs the audio anomalies that an inexpensive piece of gear may introduce. There are many audiophiles who shun EQ altogether, but I don't; it has its uses, and when used properly, can make a significant difference in a real-world room. That doesn't mean I'd put a cheap analog EQ between my preamp and amp and introduce a bunch of noise, of course.
My problem with Behringer has been on quality control. It shouldn't be the case that 2 out of every 5 pieces of Behringer gear I buy fail within 10 days, without ever opening up the case. Unfortunately, thus far that's been my experience. For gear in my home, that's not such a big deal. For gear in the studio or on the road, I'd lose sleep. When you get a working unit, it seems to work forever. But my odds of getting a working unit the first time have only been 3 out of 5. For digital devices, 2 out of 4.
I've been avoiding the DEQ2496 for this reason. I'd love to put one in the basement studio, but I'm reluctant to roll the dice on another piece of Behringer gear. I'm happy to see others have had good experiences with the DEQ2496, that's encouraging to me. Maybe I just have a black cloud hanging over my Behringer orders; I feel like I keep being bitten for being overly frugal.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the functionality of a DSP8024, DEQ2496, SRC2496, or many other pieces of Behringer gear. Often that far outweighs the audio anomalies that an inexpensive piece of gear may introduce. There are many audiophiles who shun EQ altogether, but I don't; it has its uses, and when used properly, can make a significant difference in a real-world room. That doesn't mean I'd put a cheap analog EQ between my preamp and amp and introduce a bunch of noise, of course.
My problem with Behringer has been on quality control. It shouldn't be the case that 2 out of every 5 pieces of Behringer gear I buy fail within 10 days, without ever opening up the case. Unfortunately, thus far that's been my experience. For gear in my home, that's not such a big deal. For gear in the studio or on the road, I'd lose sleep. When you get a working unit, it seems to work forever. But my odds of getting a working unit the first time have only been 3 out of 5. For digital devices, 2 out of 4.
I've been avoiding the DEQ2496 for this reason. I'd love to put one in the basement studio, but I'm reluctant to roll the dice on another piece of Behringer gear. I'm happy to see others have had good experiences with the DEQ2496, that's encouraging to me. Maybe I just have a black cloud hanging over my Behringer orders; I feel like I keep being bitten for being overly frugal.
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