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Old 5th November 2003, 12:24 AM   #1
T-man is offline T-man  Australia
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Question Reclocking Teac Esoteric P10

Greetings,

I have been assisting a friend with the installation of a Kwak Clock in his Teac Esoteric P10. However, the results have been less than satisfactory.

Some background:

We are both members of the Melbourne Audio Club (MAC). The MAC has a very active DIY group and our most recent project was building Kwak clocks. Around 25 of our members built clocks for their players or transports.

Almost all installations were very successful with the exception of the Esoteric P10. The initial installation resulted in improvements to the mids and highs but came with considerable loss of bass.

Several attempts to improve the sound ended with the temporary solution of attaching the clock directly under the transport to give a 20mm clock lead. (The original installation used a 200mm clock lead to reach from inside the transport to where the crystal was located, right in the middle of and under the main board.) Power to the clock board was taken directly from the caps after the rectifier diodes (as per Elso's suggestion).

I should also mention that we used the "standard" installation method, removing the original crystal and two caps and then connecting the Kwak clock output directly to one side of where the crystal was. The clock output was first connected to one side and then the other via a 1k resistor. The Transport failed to see the clock with the connection to one side and worked with it connected to the other (as expected).

Even with the clock lead at 20mm, the loss of bass was considerable. We did a direct comparison between the transport with the Kwak clock installed and then with the original crystal replaced to confirm our impressions. Returning to the original crystal and caps resulted in MAJOR improvements in (i.e. the return of) the bass (although at the loss of some smoothness and clarity which had been gained in the uppers).

We also did several comparisons using alternate DACs and even a direct comparison between the Kwak clocked Esoteric P10 and a Kwak clocked Esoteric P700. In all cases the comparisons showed the P10 as lacking Bass with the clock mod. In fact, the modified P700 sounded (to my ears) better than the un-modified P10.

Does anyone have experience in re-clocking an Esoteric P10 ? Do we need to do more than just remove the original crystal and the two caps ?

Google and forum searches failed to give any leads at all !

Any assistance that you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Regards and thanks in advance,
Neville Keatley
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Old 13th January 2004, 01:54 AM   #2
pekak62 is offline pekak62  Australia
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Not being a DIY person myself, I can't help with the KWAK mod. However, as an owner of a P-10, I am well aware of the need to reclock the digital output. I myself am using a modded Theta TLC. Paul Miller way back when suggested that the Theta could be muchly improved if the common ground of the input and outputs were broken. This was simple matter of replacing the cheap RCA's on the back with separate name brand plugs. WHICH meant that there had to be separate grounds! Using a lab qualtiy ps which puts out 2.5 amps with minimal ripple turns this beast into something awesome. Without the modded Theta, the std P-10 does not sound that good - with either a Wadia 15 or our latest acquisition, the MF Tri-Vista DAC 21.
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Old 13th January 2004, 07:35 AM   #3
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Location: London UK
Default Re: Reclocking Teac Esoteric P10

[QUOTE]Originally posted by T-man
[B]Greetings,

I have been assisting a friend with the installation of a Kwak Clock in his Teac Esoteric P10. However, the results have been less than satisfactory.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am beginning to find all knds of qwirks in clocks with a purcahse of a 250MHz FFT scope.

First, the power supply interacts strongly with the oscillator, with very different noise spectra. The worst I have found is the Audiocom Superegulator with the Tent and Euroquartz clock - 36 mV of noise at 90MHz and more above.

Second, the same clock can sound very different with different 'good' power supplies.

Third, the clock waveform is a strong function of the XO or crystal circuit and impedance matching to the processor seems important. Again, some of the well known clocks have horrific waveshapes and discontinuities in the rising or falling edges.

Fourth, in an expensive and presumably tweaked unit like the P10
I don't believe you should substitute a clock without before and after measurements.

I suggest you try a small clock that has undergone development.
The smallest one I have seen is the clock by K K Ho of Hong Kong who offered to sell it in this forum. This has an excellent power supply but I would recommend you fit a Tent XO or Euroquartz XO inplace of the TCXO supplied.

Best of luck!
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Old 13th January 2004, 07:40 AM   #4
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I'd suggest using a separate PS and then feeding the P10 with the clock signal, not forgetting to connect the two gnds.

Cheers

Andrea
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Old 13th January 2004, 08:40 AM   #5
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Using a lab qualtiy ps which puts out 2.5 amps with minimal ripple turns this beast into something awesome. Without the modded Theta, the std P-10 does not sound that good - with either a Wadia 15 or our latest acquisition, the MF Tri-Vista DAC 21. [/B][/QUOTE]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Lab quality power supplise are not audio quality; they often have poor noise figures 0(1mV) and impeadance characteristics.

Relocking the spdif output is not the pancea that people assume. Often it is bterr to pay attention to impedance matching and cable selction, plus optimisation of the output and input signals. There are loads of problems with IC used in relocking!!
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