Oppo's BDP105 - discussions, upgrading, mods...

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Many thanks Coris, could you please send me the frequency of the clock on the Mediatek processor?

Unfortunately this it will take a little more time (in my case)... I`m those days in a moving process... :mad:
I`ve got 105 today, and just open it and took some pictures. To come to that 25Mhz oscillator on the mother board, one have to remove the stereo board. I just had not the time and conditions to do this right now...
 
Unfortunately this it will take a little more time (in my case)... I`m those days in a moving process... :mad:
I`ve got 105 today, and just open it and took some pictures. To come to that 25Mhz oscillator on the mother board, one have to remove the stereo board. I just had not the time and conditions to do this right now...


Thanks Coris, so I also confirm that the new Oppo 103/105 is the oscillator frequency of 25.000 MHz? I have to order it to Dexa and do not want to miss the order ..
 
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I just have read it in 95 thread that Oppo has come out with the information that the main clock in 105 is 27 Mhz... Is also the only oscillator for the main processor. The 95 model used two clocks: one 25Mhz (stated as for transport part), and the main which it may be the 27Mhz one (on the back side of the PCB).
My 105 still be inside the box... I did not have yet the opportunity to power it and hear its original sound... It seems to me that will take a while until I will succeed to put some order in the mess caused by the moving of my living place...
 
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It might be worth waiting for the Nuforce versions where hopefully these issues are addressed .... at a premium no doubt.

Hi David

I doubt if that will be good value.

Certainly more details are coming to light. Such as claims that parallelled up channels on the Sabre DAC is not necessarily worse for sonics - one that surprises me, but maybe right.

"Burson is using the ESS DAC chip in their latest DAC and they said they listened and paralleling actually sounded worse than single....so they are using it single. Also the Eastern Electric DAC (excellent sound, especially with Dexa or Burson Op amps) is using the DAC with just one set of outputs. I think Oppo said somewhere they felt there was no sonic penalty from doing it this way. So, there you have it. You can, of course, wire it any way you want." Ric Schultz

Burson? That is in your town, mate. :)

What I do know is this, and I am on public record on this, don't hesitate to pull the Sabre DAC to ground and dump both the converted offset current (converted from the now disappered 1.65V offset voltage), that will create 2.1mA per leg of the DAC (in the Oppo 95 2.1mA x 4 = 8.4mA). But may need 4x gain and I can cater for that. Maybe that will be OK, but it will be DC coupled, no caps of any sort in the signal path. The DC stability of the Sabre DAC is exceptionally good, so there is a way that the final DC offset can be nulled to 0mV.

As Tony from ID said to me about a week ago, it will be January and maybe even February before we see an actual physical unit down here, one we can examine closeup. My gut feeling is that it should work out OK and not be a downer relative to the '95. There is hopefully more plusses than negatives and the negatives won't affect the sound. With the right solutions of course.

Cheers, Joe R.

PS: I think it may be that Oppo is shorting an unused output of the Sabre DAC straight to ground? No problem - I have been doing it for years - and that 2.1mA current has to go somewhere I should think. Another thing we shall eventually get confirmed.
 
It may be the same as in 95 model (25Mhz). My 105 is on the way now, so in short time I will have a more precise answer....

It seems it may be 27MHz? That source is Jason via Ric. If so, maybe not a bad thing.

I do have a question for you: When you clocked the 25MHz on the Oppo 95 and heard the improvement, was this via file playback or via disk playback? Or did you hear no difference, or rather, the same improvement?

Cheers, Joe R.
 
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Two (unofficial) pictures of inside 105: clock area for stereo DAC and final stage - output caps...
One can observe in the clock circuit, a little more care from Oppo designers to supply the oscillator with more clean power from a low noise regulator right near to it. But disappointing the frequency of this oscillator: 54Mhz...
The same as in 95 model :confused:

Yes, even on Oppo's top view I could see the X1, but not the frequency. But this looks much better than Oppo 95 and easy going the SAW way.

BTW, I am now using SAW 100MHz rather than 125MHz. On one player we picked up some static noises and going back to 100MHz we heard no loss in sound quaility. Also make sure there is a ferrite inductor and decent size ceramic stacked film cap on the Oscillator.

Like I said earlier, it is the quality of the SAW oscillator that is important, rather than the frequency (so will stick with 100MHz). And the same goes for Synchronous versus Asynchronous - not worth bothering about. Just go SAW!!!

Cheers, Joe R.
 
Hi David

I doubt if that will be good value.

Certainly more details are coming to light. Such as claims that parallelled up channels on the Sabre DAC is not necessarily worse for sonics - one that surprises me, but maybe right.

"Burson is using the ESS DAC chip in their latest DAC and they said they listened and paralleling actually sounded worse than single....so they are using it single. Also the Eastern Electric DAC (excellent sound, especially with Dexa or Burson Op amps) is using the DAC with just one set of outputs. I think Oppo said somewhere they felt there was no sonic penalty from doing it this way. So, there you have it. You can, of course, wire it any way you want." Ric Schultz

Burson may not have a clue what is actually happening either. :)

When you parallel more channels, 2 things happen, 1) the OP Z gows lower,
and 2) the current goes up. IOW, in parallel mode, the I-V opamp is under
more current stress and is operating with more gain. Maybe their low OLG
high distortion opamp is just showing that it is less able to cope with the
increased demands in parallel DAC operation.

Just a (lateral) thought.
 
Burson may not have a clue what is actually happening either. :)

When you parallel more channels, 2 things happen, 1) the OP Z gows lower,
and 2) the current goes up. IOW, in parallel mode, the I-V opamp is under
more current stress and is operating with more gain. Maybe their low OLG
high distortion opamp is just showing that it is less able to cope with the
increased demands in parallel DAC operation.

Just a (lateral) thought.

Another lateral... solution: Me no use opamps.... :D

It may well be that non-parallel sounds better with opamps, and even Burson uses opamps (feedback devices), even if non integrated variety. I don't use feedback and parallel may well be the best, still. In which case the '105 is a pain if one has tp remove ICs (would anyway) and then run jumpers. If only three pairs are used, then accessing the fourth could be troublesome - somebody suggested they were grounding when unused?

Cheers, Joe R.
 
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It seems it may be 27MHz? That source is Jason via Ric. If so, maybe not a bad thing.

I do have a question for you: When you clocked the 25MHz on the Oppo 95 and heard the improvement, was this via file playback or via disk playback? Or did you hear no difference, or rather, the same improvement?

Cheers, Joe R.

My above supposition about 25Mhz clock in 105 it were amended by myself in my last post, so it was not necessary your redundant contribution...
When about main clock in 95, I may be sceptic to this information (stated here as coming from Oppo...). The improvements after using an better oscillator her, or battery power for it, are general for both video and audio, and do not refer at the functionality of the transport only. Both video and audio are improved no matter where the files come (transport or another support). Not at last, when is to power this clock by battery, I remarked an quite clear improvement in the reaction speed of the processor (opening files and so on). This is just obviously (but not so easy to explain...).
The main processor in 95 include an HDMI stage (used as secondary HDMI output for the player), and I suspect this stage need an separate clock (27Mhz). The 25Mhz it my be the main clock anyway...
Maybe someone else will want to try to improve only the 27Mhz oscillator, and publish the result... In this way we can have a confirmation... But is a little bit of work to be put it in this...
 
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Yes, even on Oppo's top view I could see the X1, but not the frequency. But this looks much better than Oppo 95 and easy going the SAW way.

BTW, I am now using SAW 100MHz rather than 125MHz. On one player we picked up some static noises and going back to 100MHz we heard no loss in sound quaility. Also make sure there is a ferrite inductor and decent size ceramic stacked film cap on the Oscillator.

Like I said earlier, it is the quality of the SAW oscillator that is important, rather than the frequency (so will stick with 100MHz). And the same goes for Synchronous versus Asynchronous - not worth bothering about. Just go SAW!!!

Cheers, Joe R.

You may see in my those two pictures here that is about an 54Mhz clock in 105 too...
I may agree that the quality of the SAW oscillator have impact for the sound out of the DAC. My option still be overclocking the ESS9018.
After I used battery for this clock, I may correct your recommendation: go SAW and battery... I think to try one day an low power cmos oscillator for this clock. I suppose that the cleanness of the oscillator power it may be more important...
 
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Another lateral... solution: Me no use opamps.... :D

It may well be that non-parallel sounds better with opamps, and even Burson uses opamps (feedback devices), even if non integrated variety. I don't use feedback and parallel may well be the best, still. In which case the '105 is a pain if one has tp remove ICs (would anyway) and then run jumpers. If only three pairs are used, then accessing the fourth could be troublesome - somebody suggested they were grounding when unused?

Cheers, Joe R.

Grounding the ESS9018 (unused!!!) outputs it my be just stupid. Even more stupid not to use some of this chip outputs. The designer of this chip has created an architecture for take out the most of this device, and some another electronic designers just ground the DAC outputs? Sorry, but this is only nonsense...
Oppo has official stated that all the DAC channels are used (not grounded). They used two channels for headphone out...
 
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When about main clock in 95, I may be sceptic to this information (stated here as coming from Oppo...). The improvements after using an better oscillator her, or battery power for it, are general for both video and audio, and do not refer at the functionality of the transport only. ..

Yep!

Try tell Ric Schultz that as Jason at Oppo said... oh well.

It is very curious indeed as what you say tally with what we got here.

Also, it was Audiocom who first pointed to the 25MHz in the Oppo 95, before yours truly. I also came across somebody else, just can't recall exactly who or where - so there your are...

Re '105 - if indeed just a 27MHz clock does the lot, then hopefully we will have no confusion or lead to any confusion. According to Ric, you have to remove the heatshrink on the Mediatek chip and it will turn out to be 27MHz. And that also came from Jason at Oppo, so make of that what you will.

Will you be soon looking at/removing that heatsink?

Cheers, Joe R.
 
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I did my self an research for a time ago about the main processor Oppo used in 95 model. If I remember well, I think I have seen something on an general description/advertise of the chip about the clock frequency, and it was 25Mhz. That because I were convinced that this is the main clock. This processor it were stand alone chip until Oppo printed its name on it...
An "Jason" from Oppo...?! It may be e everybody and nobody....
 
An "Jason" from Oppo...?! It may be e everybody and nobody....

It's possible that Jason got it wrong. Nothing is impossible. Not imputing bad motives to anyone.

But the word is now 27MHz for '105? You have the player, over to you to see through your eyes. Keep an eye on what commercial reclock makers will do respecting the '103 (since they will want you to do the Sabre DAC clock in the '105). But with the '103 they will need to look at clocking on the Digital Mainboard, which is the same for both players. Will it turn out to be 27MHz as predicted by Ric?

Cheers, Joe R.
 
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I'm not imputing anything nor to Jason or anybody. I was just pointed the ambiguity of this (clock) information.
As I've wrote earlier, I have not the right conditions right now, and huge another priorities, witch do not let me take a closer look inside my new 105. I will do it for sure very soon (I suppose...).
I just remember now an experiment I've done with this 25Mhz clock. I've used an 50Mhz one in that place. Nothing worked, except reading/playing files from USB interface. Of course I've got access to user interface. It were so exceptional video and audio out of the player, but were not possible to get access to transport and SATA. This experiment It seems to confirm that 25Mhz clock may have a connection with transport stage... What it may be your conclusion?
It may be very interesting to try double the clock frequency for the only one (27Mhz) processor clock in 105... It looks to me that the eventual clock for transport is derived (drive a PLL) from that main 27Mhz... I will for sure try this.
 
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All this obsession about coupling caps...he he. The Elna Silmic II caps used on the output of each channel in the 105 are actually excellent sounding coupling caps....better than many film caps. These parts are not the weak link in the output stage. This I know from experience. I have modified the output stage on the 105 and the sound is way better and I still have the Elna Caps in there. The modding game is infinite. If you just obsess in one area ("we must remove the coupling caps, we must remove the coupling caps, we must remove the coupling caps", on and on and on and on.....he he).....then we make very little progress. There are way more important things to remove/change/modify than the coupling cap.....for instance, removing the 50K resistor to ground after the coupling cap makes a serious improvement.....showing us that the resistors they use are not so hot. The tweaking game is infinite......please do not spend all your time on one place....there is a lot to do and a lot to learn. I do tons of stuff all over the player that make a serious sonic difference. You can learn much by reading my website about some of the things I do. Try these things....they all work.
 
A fifty K resistor would only slightly damp a DC transient.....the fact of the matter is that the Oppo has relay muting on all the front channels that shorts the output to ground before any transient can occur.....this is why you do not need a resistor there. Some people complain about the relays going on and off all the time. They work. No transients will ever come out of the Oppo. No need for the resistor.

By the way, there is only 10mv offset max before the coupling cap. As has been described, the 95 had no coupling caps.....none. It also had relays....no one ever has had a problem.....even DC coupled.