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Old 30th January 2013, 04:34 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaina View Post
I have tried some little tweak on my oppo105
Looks like you changed the resistors to Dale RN60 on the Audio board and a Different Main CAP on the SMPS board has it made an improvement?
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Old 31st January 2013, 12:25 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
If is a issue for Epson to make the price publicly, then can you please PM it me? Thanks.
I just received this:

Hi Joe,

The new production code has been confirmed, actual production need additional 6 to 9 wks, can be improved upon order.

Meanwhile, pls see quotation below as per our previous discussion.

Quotation reference No : MG/AC/Q/13/003

Manufacturer : Epson Toyocom

1) Epson PN: XG-1000CA 54MHz CC

2) Epson PN: XG-1000CA 100MHz CC

Unit Price: USD 2.80/PC

Sample MOQ: 50 ~ 150 PCS

SPQ: 1k/reel

Lead time: 6-9 weeks upon receipt of PO

Delivery Mode: EXWORKS SIN

(Pls indicate method of shipping upon order: registered Mail or courier service (DHL/Fedex), cost will be added to billing invoice)

Payment term: PayPal

Country of Origin: Japan

If you wish to proceed, kindly issue order to us. Thanks.

Warmest Regards,

Anne


Note that 6-9 weeks can be shortened if an order is placed.

They will make a thousand of each - Made in Japan.

The offer is also open for 100MHz and $2.80 per unit, but it needs to be a minimum of Fifty.

If anybody wants to order 50 of each, they may put the money into my PayPal account - joeras@vacummstate.com - but adjust to $2.90 to cover my PayPal fees.

Over to you and anybody else... comments from others please...

Cheers, Joe

PS: I am not seeking a cut in these transactions, only asking that cost be covered/shared. Can't be fairer than that.
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Old 31st January 2013, 12:37 PM   #273
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Quote:
Could there be some aspect of the fundamental operation of a SAW oscillator, that makes it potentially have superior PSRR - because, on reflecting, the improvement heard does sound like that.
now where have I heard that before? oh yeah, I suggested it to you a few days ago in a desperate attempt to make a stab at a possible reason why something that clearly has worse phase noise everywhere that matters by epsons own specs, could perhaps work better under some use cases where the psu was not taken care of properly for the crystek or NDK and these 'superior clocks' were said to 'sound better'

i'm very skeptical of the claims and the conditions for the anecdotal tests, but I would like to be able to have a $3 clock that beats $150 clocks too, so wouldnt mind seeing the results of testing. the speeds are of no use to me personally so I wouldnt use them, but still handy.

I also made suggestions of who to send them to to be tested objectively ie. iancanada, who also has ndk and crystek for objective and subjective evaluation

not once did I say anything about price being a factor. I do not however believe there is something that science forgot here, no magic going on.

either
the people prefer higher jitter and interpret it as more detail
they had underdog or expectation bias
there was something wrong with the test set up

Last edited by qusp; 31st January 2013 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 31st January 2013, 12:45 PM   #274
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Look, just go back to the other forum. That seems to be your preferred place to bag me.

Get that guy to get in touch with me and I will happily oblige - I don't like you particular kind of manners.

(Where do they cultivate these kind of people - in the hot sun of Queensland? Yet others from that state seem not so affected. My favourite place to holiday. America has its Deep South - we have Queensland. )
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Old 31st January 2013, 06:42 PM   #275
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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Good news Joe. I think your proposal is fair and I appreciate that.
My only little worry in this is about the certified quality of this small production batch. Can we get/have a guaranty from Epson that those oscillators will be (all) in the data sheet specified parameters? I know that in such production fields, the factory can chose/select (for an high selling price) the components which have less (+/- %) deviation from specified parameters, and they can sell too the another resulting components with more tolerances, for a lower price. Or it may be also an mix of different deviations from specified parameters, and this is worse...
Do you think it is possible to get some more informations about the quality of this quite particular resulted production batch from Epson? It may be the highest quality oscillators (less as possible deviation from specified parameters) in this batch, for this announced price?
Anyway, thanks for your contribution/involvement in this.


I could see above that someone get desperate, and this is just regrettable...
I even like the idea: I will not use such (against my "religion"), but I think to buy few...50 or 100 Just for fun and for the price...

Last edited by Coris; 31st January 2013 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 31st January 2013, 07:35 PM   #276
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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wow, are you sure you speak English Coris? I simply corrected a claim that something was said about price, not once was price mentioned. I will not use it because its in stupid speeds, I run dual synchronous clocks, so a music frequency multiple is needed. also buying anything lower performance when its not needed is expensive... not cheap. but its good to know, I have more than one dac and I sometimes build them for friends.

who is the desperate one? your above desperate need to slap your buddies back results in you looking the fool

Last edited by qusp; 31st January 2013 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 31st January 2013, 09:01 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
wow, are you sure you speak English Coris?
Why are you so condescending?

They are not "stupid speeds" - they are EXACTLY what we want.

100MHz is not a "stupid speed" for a Sabre DAC.

You do know that this forum is about the Sabre DAC, don't you?

Would you like a similar condescending speech aimed at you?
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Old 31st January 2013, 09:05 PM   #278
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Tell me you are using a Sabre DAC, let me know via PM your address, and I will send you a 100MHz GRATIS.

And if you are open-minded enough and you actually LIKE what it does, then have the honesty and decency to come back here and tell us NICELY.

Then either put up or shut up.

Fair enough?
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Old 31st January 2013, 09:13 PM   #279
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Hi Coris

From Epson Toyocom website:

XG-1000CA/CB (Crystal Oscillator Low-Jitter SAW Oscillator)

I have tried 100MHz, 125MHz and 50MHz from the same range - all good.

I really have no reason to doubt they will not follow the same specs - makes no sense why the shouldn't.

Specs:

XG-1000CA/CB | Real time Clock Module | Products | Epson Quartz Crystal Devices

Note: Made in Japan

Cheers, Joe
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Old 31st January 2013, 10:26 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
Good news Joe. I think your proposal is fair and I appreciate that.
My only little worry in this is about the certified quality of this small production batch. Can we get/have a guaranty from Epson that those oscillators will be (all) in the data sheet specified parameters? I know that in such production fields, the factory can chose/select (for an high selling price) the components which have less (+/- %) deviation from specified parameters, and they can sell too the another resulting components with more tolerances, for a lower price. Or it may be also an mix of different deviations from specified parameters, and this is worse...
Do you think it is possible to get some more informations about the quality of this quite particular resulted production batch from Epson? It may be the highest quality oscillators (less as possible deviation from specified parameters) in this batch, for this announced price?
Anyway, thanks for your contribution/involvement in this.
Hi Coris,

The data sheet Joe linked to doesn't really give enough information to
adequately characterize the clocks performance. Much more is required.
The reason is they are a comparatively low spec clock.

Manufacturers generally don't bother supplying phase noise and Allan
Variance plots for low spec oscillators, there's no point.

If you want to guarantee consistency, this is the way they do it and has
always been done. If they are supplying super low phase noise clocks for
space applications the customers will demand it.

The more I think about it the more I am convinced these SAW oscillators
have a fairly high jitter compared to the best crystal oscillators but the
jitter spectrum is spread such that subjectively they sound good.

I gave an example previously of comparisons between high spec oscillators
where often the lowest jitter didn't win subjectively. Unfortunately Joe
took this personally. My research on this doesn't cover just a few people
but many peoples experience over many years.

As I have stated previously, there also may be something in this jitter
spectrum spread that works well with Sabres internal ASRC. Remember
Sabre has internal re sampling engine to reduce jitter.
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