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Old 17th December 2012, 01:25 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rasmussen View Post
Yes, that is a definite possibility. But I have not able to find any SAWs @108MHz.

The 74HC4040 is rated 90MHz "maximum operating frequency". I imagine that is input freq. Do they make them higher than that?

I do know this much, we need to come up with a working solution, or else the '105 will be inferior to the '95 - based on what I have here.

Cheers, Joe R.
there is special seria AC usually 50% faster, for example, 74AC4040 is rated 140MHz
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Old 17th December 2012, 01:46 PM   #142
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btw, SAWs oscillators are good enough and only and they aren't best possible on jitter and phase noise, look, for example, at one 100MHz ultra low jitter (compare datasheets) and it's not so expensive (€21.76) farnell SKU - 1904495

also if you need cheap 25MHz TCXO with good frequency stability (jitter - no data) you could look at this one farnell SKU - 2063962
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Old 17th December 2012, 02:24 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
This last week, I met with the designers of the OPPO 105 analogue stage. They are competent, and well intentioned. However, the need for keeping cost within reasonable bounds, and adding features, limits what they CAN do themselves. I personally have used the 105: Stock, with STAX Lambda electrostatic headphones, and I will say it is the best player (of its type) that I have heard, including SACD.
John, are you saying that this is the best SACD player you've ever heard?
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Old 17th December 2012, 09:27 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
I meant an good quality standard 108 Mhz oscillator (not SAW)...
I think I will try first an upper frequency oscillator than 27Mhz to see what may happen... What about if it function well with 30Mhz and you may find an SAW 60Mhz...? For example.
Only interested in a SAW solution.

106.25MHz "no longer stocked" by Element14, but others may have some. Divide by 4 equals 26.56MHz. Needs a suitable high freq divide chip.

62.5MHz - some may be floating around. But... only if desperate.

I did see a 52.5MHz SAW somewhere, it was listed but not stocked and they are made. divide by 2 equals 26.25Mz.

I have seen nothing else around that is anywhere near suitable. These things are made for mainly high freq operation like microwave, networking, industrial. That may be the problem, but also why it's been ignored for audio - so we look to be leading the rest. It would be nice if we could start something new - and the DIY crowd showing the way that DAC/player manufacturers should be going?

Cheers, Joe R.
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Old 17th December 2012, 10:41 PM   #145
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No, it is not the best, but it is pretty good.
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Old 18th December 2012, 06:27 AM   #146
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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I have been actually frustrated many time about those high quality oscillators for audio use, which is very difficult to be found it on the marked, or not produced at all. The providers/manufacturers have an very wide and good marked in audio/video field, but do not produce such things... Hard to understand...
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Old 18th December 2012, 06:47 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
No, it is not the best, but it is pretty good.
Hi John

For the money, how can anybody complain? I can't think of anything near the price that offers the same all round value.

Even when people can't afford anything added done, I still recommend Oppo.

But there is potential in them that is not exploited and would add cost. I have clients who heard their '95 first and then got our work done on them, and they are gob-smacked when they hear the difference - and some ask why they couldn't sound like that out of the box? Just not possible.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Old 18th December 2012, 07:22 AM   #148
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My customers feel the same way. Stock the Oppos are good. But after I perform my extensive mods then they go completely nuts. There is a lot of info on my website about modding and a description of the first level of mods for the 105. I will have the advanced mods listed in a couple of weeks. Every single one of the things mentioned all make a sonic difference. Please feel free to use any of my ideas. Even for monetary gain. You too Joe! Enjoy!
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Old 18th December 2012, 07:36 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
I have been actually frustrated many time about those high quality oscillators for audio use, which is very difficult to be found it on the marked, or not produced at all. The providers/manufacturers have an very wide and good marked in audio/video field, but do not produce such things... Hard to understand...
The answer is simple. They cannot place part or circuit 3 times price of just a good one 'because they're making money and the mass production is taking a place plus there are some standards around of good and enough quality or needs for some level of performance.

look at price and stated jitter
http://www.taelektroakustik.de/filea...eview_DAC8.pdf
the jitter is 30ps
ok, it is not correct comparison but anyway:
EPSON SAW oscillator has rms jitter - 3ps
my offered ABRACON oscillator to try instead of EPSON SAW has rms jitter 0.1ps max (bandwidth 12kHz - 20mhZ) if we'll take full bandwidth the value will be worse but it's special oscillator especially for low jitter needs and it's available at farnell

Last edited by drdupery; 18th December 2012 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 18th December 2012, 10:52 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drdupery View Post
look at price and stated jitter
I say don't look at the price and stated jitter.

May I put it this way, when we originally did I work on the Terra Firma clock (sorry, but I am not trying to advertise here) we came across something that caught even us by surprise. We drove a clock from a servo controlled voltage source and tuned it down to a suitably low, or so we thought, frequency. Then I got the bug and tried it ten times lower, and the improvement was not subtle, but a delay occurred, so you have to wait at least 15 seconds for the voltage to come up to speed. Then we tried ten times lower, and now had to wait quite a few minutes, then finally we went ten times lower still, and this time had to wait from one day to the next... and it further improved. We then had to design something that shortened that time. This was a logistic problem only.

Why am I saying this? Because what we did made no difference to the jitter spec and we heard the same improvement with all kinds of clocks/oscillators, even cheap ones - and it allowed us to clearly hear differences too.

We realised that this all had to be about rock-like stability, absolute pure DC and expunging ultra-ulta-low frequency noise.

The key word is stability.

So when I came across SAW oscillators and the claim that because of their superior stability than conventional oscillators, they can work up to much higher frequencies than conventional types. These are BAW types, although rarely stated if ever stated. It's only that SAW oscillators work very differently that they say they are called SAW.

But can you see that some lateral thinking is being applied here, the notion that the higher you go, the greater the stability required, and what is stability if it is not that of a waveform which is more stable relative to a Ground... DC. Or the result is extremely low frequency noise. It fitted our conceptual thinking aligned to TF.

So when I was this stability highlighted I got that instinctive urge to ask the question and simply ordered and I was suitable floored.

So, to repeat... don't ask about the price or the jitter spec... just try it!

I suspect you won't regret it. Hey, you have little to loose and I might be the one with egg on my face. So, I am the brave one here, OK?

Cheers, Joe

PS: Some time later, Paul Miller in the UK did indeed do a measurement that revealed "low rate, uncorrelated or noise-like jitter" - we contacted him and the equipment was worth a mountain of loot. But it shows it does exist.
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Last edited by Joe Rasmussen; 18th December 2012 at 10:58 AM.
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