I think Peter Daniel already reported about CDM4/19 outperforming CD pro II.
In case of using these old Marantz as transports only , is there anything to up-grade?
I also picked up a nice Marantz CD 65 MKII lately.
It has CDM4/19 transport , SAA7210,SAA7220B and TDA1541A chip.
I still hesitate wheather to use it as a transport and build separate DAC or try to up-grade CD player with Lclock,output stage (maybr tube one) and some nice PS.Maybe non-os mod.
Bartek
In case of using these old Marantz as transports only , is there anything to up-grade?
I also picked up a nice Marantz CD 65 MKII lately.
It has CDM4/19 transport , SAA7210,SAA7220B and TDA1541A chip.
I still hesitate wheather to use it as a transport and build separate DAC or try to up-grade CD player with Lclock,output stage (maybr tube one) and some nice PS.Maybe non-os mod.
Bartek
zygibajt said:
Dear Bartek , I strongly believe possible up-grades could be made in relation to CD transports . such as anti-resonance / mounting / decoupling of vibrations .. etc.
It seems that your CD65 is full of potential too .. you can omit digital filtering and OS too .. straight from decoder to dac chip . whether with 1541 or 1543 .. I didn't compared those .. yet .
Many seems to prefer the 1543 .. one thing's for sure : the 1541 needs many decoupling caps close to their pins .. 1543 instead is much easier to handle .
Other mods , like low jitter XO and power supply could be the next step .. take your time .. listen carefuly after each step you'v made so evaluation is clear .
Give it a try !
Happy Ears
Hello Happy Ears,
Good to see Guido is offering a "digital" hand!
Keep going.
Hello zygibajt,
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what a cd drive does and what has an effect on sound quality. Since the very beginning the fact that CD comes in a disc format, spins on a turntable and playback can be performed with a swingarm mechanism leads to the idea that there is any operating resemblance with the old black vinyl records.
This misconception resulted in ideas for improvement based on the concepts of old record players instead of knowledge about the CD system.
The only function of a cd drive is to get the digital data from the CD. That can be done perfectly with a cdm1 or cdm4.
Unfortunately not everyone is very careful with CD's. Scratches, fingerprints(!) etc. make it difficult for a drive to get that data. As a CD drive already has to cope with the allowed Red Book disc tollerances you will find the differences between cdm's in playing scratched and dirty discs.
Yes I prefer a cdm1 above a cdm4 for the simple reason that at the start of CD not all tolerances were known and extra safety margins were taken. Lateron when this was better known and the price per unit had to become lower the "plastic" cdm's came to the market. Cdm1 has a bit of overkill.
I am not talking about audio quality! That comes in a later stage. How you treat the digital signal is important in getting the best audio quality. Therefore I like the efforts of Happy Ears and Guido to couple a cdm1 and modern digital electronics!
By the way I do have an ALP(Audio LongPlay) disc. An (analog!!) predecessor of CD. There the audio is modulated on the disc like a laservision disc. There you might find audible differences in drives. But that system never made it...
So buying an "old" Marant or Philips is a "sound" idea!
Ward
Good to see Guido is offering a "digital" hand!
Keep going.
Hello zygibajt,
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what a cd drive does and what has an effect on sound quality. Since the very beginning the fact that CD comes in a disc format, spins on a turntable and playback can be performed with a swingarm mechanism leads to the idea that there is any operating resemblance with the old black vinyl records.
This misconception resulted in ideas for improvement based on the concepts of old record players instead of knowledge about the CD system.
The only function of a cd drive is to get the digital data from the CD. That can be done perfectly with a cdm1 or cdm4.
Unfortunately not everyone is very careful with CD's. Scratches, fingerprints(!) etc. make it difficult for a drive to get that data. As a CD drive already has to cope with the allowed Red Book disc tollerances you will find the differences between cdm's in playing scratched and dirty discs.
Yes I prefer a cdm1 above a cdm4 for the simple reason that at the start of CD not all tolerances were known and extra safety margins were taken. Lateron when this was better known and the price per unit had to become lower the "plastic" cdm's came to the market. Cdm1 has a bit of overkill.
I am not talking about audio quality! That comes in a later stage. How you treat the digital signal is important in getting the best audio quality. Therefore I like the efforts of Happy Ears and Guido to couple a cdm1 and modern digital electronics!
By the way I do have an ALP(Audio LongPlay) disc. An (analog!!) predecessor of CD. There the audio is modulated on the disc like a laservision disc. There you might find audible differences in drives. But that system never made it...
So buying an "old" Marant or Philips is a "sound" idea!
Ward
Hi,
what about the problem of aging or fading lasers with these old transport mechanisms? Are there any substitute parts available if the laser dies?
I have a Marantz CD 73 with one of these very massive mechanisms but I would like to upgrade to a Ack!Dack DAC. Would it be worthwhile to install a digital output to the CD73 or is it better to look for a decent player which is already equipped with such an output? Even more as I couldn't make such a modification myself but would have to give it away to some pro to do it for me...
What CD-players/transport would you suggest?
Thanks,
Stefan
what about the problem of aging or fading lasers with these old transport mechanisms? Are there any substitute parts available if the laser dies?
I have a Marantz CD 73 with one of these very massive mechanisms but I would like to upgrade to a Ack!Dack DAC. Would it be worthwhile to install a digital output to the CD73 or is it better to look for a decent player which is already equipped with such an output? Even more as I couldn't make such a modification myself but would have to give it away to some pro to do it for me...
What CD-players/transport would you suggest?
Thanks,
Stefan
stefanK said:
Hi !
Risky .. you can always end up with a broken laser / servo one day . in that case it would be wise to find at least one spare transport including the optical parts before starting a project .
New CDM1 is very sarce , doubt If you are able to find one .. CDM4 instead can be easier to purchase somewhere .
I'm still working on both obsolete swingarm transports .. so at this time I cannot offer any statement on which one to choose / prefer ... altough I strongly believe both are quite close to each other . need to find this out in the near future .
Marantz CD73 ?? is it equiped with CDM4 / saa7345 ??
I prefer to find I2S format instead of going with Spdif .
Do you have the schematics available for us ?
Happy Ears
Hello Stefan,
The complete laser unit can be replaced in a matter of seconds. Availability can be a problem, but scavenge an old player is also easy.
A few tips:
- Do not power up the laser to solve playability problems. The Starwars lightsaber approach does not help to improve the lifespan of the laser.There is a light feedback mechanism to keep a constant light level on the disc. Cleaning the lens (no alcohol!) is better.
-The laser unit is sensitive to static electricity. Be careful. A paperclip can short-circuit the flexPCB leads when in storage.
Ward
Philips CD 100-104 CDM0 14 b TDA 1540
Philips CD101 CDM1 14b 1540
Philips CD 200,202,204 CDM0 14b 1540
Philps CD300, 303 CDM0 14b 1540
Philips CD 304 CDM1 14b 1540
Philips CD 304 MKII CDM1 16b digital out TDA 1541
Philips CD 960 CDM1 16 b digital out TDA 1541
Marantz 73 CDM0 14b
Marantz cd 74,84 CDM1 14b
Marantz 94 CDM1 16b digital out TDA 1541
CDM 0 steel, motor DC
CDM1 Aluminium, motor Halla
CDM1 Photo
www.gregaudio.republika.pl
Philips CD101 CDM1 14b 1540
Philips CD 200,202,204 CDM0 14b 1540
Philps CD300, 303 CDM0 14b 1540
Philips CD 304 CDM1 14b 1540
Philips CD 304 MKII CDM1 16b digital out TDA 1541
Philips CD 960 CDM1 16 b digital out TDA 1541
Marantz 73 CDM0 14b
Marantz cd 74,84 CDM1 14b
Marantz 94 CDM1 16b digital out TDA 1541
CDM 0 steel, motor DC
CDM1 Aluminium, motor Halla
CDM1 Photo
www.gregaudio.republika.pl
Attachments
Datasheets
You can find the data sheets of the chipset of early Philips/Marantz players here:
http://tube.fw.hu
You can find the data sheets of the chipset of early Philips/Marantz players here:
http://tube.fw.hu
Bernhard said:
Ward gave me an exelent answer on this question some time ago. Depending on version, the value of the pot is different. I have seen 1K and 10K (CDM-1) and 6K8 (CDM-0). The outline of the board I have drawn is different from CDM-1.
Be carefull not to turn the pot too high.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=21005&highlight=
Hi all
I have the opportunity to buy to players :
Philips CD130 CDM4/19 16bit
Marantz CD74 SAA7000/10 SAA7020 2xTDA1540 CDM1
Which one should I chose?
I intended to buld this DAC
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/convertus3_e.html
as na upgrade unit and put it inside the player. Other way is to take the transport and the control unit and make my own case.
Where can get source for the digital in from?
I liked this project because of his simplicity. It would be my first DAC
Thanks
I have the opportunity to buy to players :
Philips CD130 CDM4/19 16bit
Marantz CD74 SAA7000/10 SAA7020 2xTDA1540 CDM1
Which one should I chose?
I intended to buld this DAC
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/convertus3_e.html
as na upgrade unit and put it inside the player. Other way is to take the transport and the control unit and make my own case.
Where can get source for the digital in from?
I liked this project because of his simplicity. It would be my first DAC
Thanks
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