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Old 25th October 2012, 05:40 PM   #51
BFNY is offline BFNY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackinnj View Post
Close, but no cigar:
I know, good point, but on the other hand...

The top circuit from Wenzel can likely be added to an existing design or product using an LM317, etc, as it barely drops the voltage. It is easy to build, it uses 5 resistors, a cap and transistor. Not bad for an "add on" 20-40 dB noise reduction. It would be interesting to see if this add on could be measured in terms lower jitter on a DAC output signal.
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Old 25th October 2012, 05:51 PM   #52
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regardless I understand it still does rather well, its not designed to be much of a regulator, its designed for low noise for very specific and pretty much constant loading
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Old 25th October 2012, 10:12 PM   #53
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@jackinnj

Myself and a few friends have tested several regulators with quartz clocks.

Almost all of them prefered sound when clock was powered with opamp based shunt reg, very similar to Walt Jung's shunt presented HERE.
Few others prefered opamp based series regulator, similar to Maxim's Application note 3657 with low noise RRIO @ unity gain and PNP instead P-MOS.

Raw DC supply (12V):
Transformer -> Schottky diodes -> CRC (2200uF-56R-2200uF) -> 7812
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Old 26th October 2012, 02:09 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
regardless I understand it still does rather well, its not designed to be much of a regulator, its designed for low noise for very specific and pretty much constant loading
I'm not pushing it, but doesn't your description above mate well with an oscillator, the subject of this thread?
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Old 26th October 2012, 05:49 AM   #55
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yes it matches exactly to it. thats what I was saying without actually saying it note that I was talking about the oneoclock/Demian Martin version that jackinnj was mentioning had loop gain issues

Last edited by qusp; 26th October 2012 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 27th October 2012, 12:05 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
yes it matches exactly to it. thats what I was saying without actually saying it note that I was talking about the oneoclock/Demian Martin version that jackinnj was mentioning had loop gain issues
Here's a bode plot for one which I cobbled together -- from living resistors, caps and transistors:

Click the image to open in full size.

The problem with this one is that the TL431 really likes to see some significant current draw, i.e. over 10 mA to make it hum. This is discussed at length in Basso's book.

When I take Vcc down to 5V, with the R values illustrated and what I perceive as typical XO current draw, this particular regulator just poops out.
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Old 27th October 2012, 10:38 AM   #57
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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yeah well past modelling I gather it works well in reality and I view Demian Martin as being one of the audio worlds leading designers wrt clocking, he also has better instrumentation to measure phase noise/jitter than anyone here i'm aware of, so you'll excuse me if I take his word on the designs suitability and real world functionality over a model you knocked up. its also been built by quite a few people here on the forum and included on a couple fairly widely built PCBs

I do appreciate you taking the time, but this isnt a proposed design, its a proven design, besides the clocks i'm powering use more than 10ma
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