Would a 32bit floating point dac/adc system remove the need for dither? - Page 8 - diyAudio
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Old 28th September 2012, 12:23 PM   #71
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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That's an interesting one ... about 9 months ago I made a reasonably serious attempt to investigate and understand what the current mashing of sound was doing, within the bowels of the beast, so to speak, the raw waveform. And it's a bit of a curate's egg: if the type of compression is relatively straightforward, that done at the last stage of mastering, after the tracks have been assembled then a bit of judicious fiddling with the right tools can quite adroitly reverse the squeezing. Essentially you work out the compression curve that's been applied, where the knee is and suchlike, and the end result can be a remarkably improved version.

However, and a big however, if the track is a complex mix of tracks, all of which have had their own distinct compression curves applied prior to mix down, then this is the nightmare scenario. First you have to separate the instrument and musical element strands, this is DSP at the highest level: one or two companies are attempting such, and presumably being paid much moolah for their efforts ... not something for the DIYer to tackle first up!

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Old 29th September 2012, 03:48 AM   #72
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Right, most mastering is not simple compression. It's done differently to different frequency bands and even sub-sections of the mix. And differs over the length of the track. And is often done more than once. Very, very hard to unravel.
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Old 29th September 2012, 04:01 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Yes, I've noted in much CD sound a dullness, or grayness, which for me says that the treble is not working correctly. That part of the spectrum in CD sound is extremely vulnerable to interference, I don't see it as a manifestation of noise modulation or something intrinsic to the DAC's way of functioning. And that's because I can alter that character of the sound very easily by varying the level of effectively injected noise. Simple example: CD is working nicely, bring a switched off mobile phone over next to the player, switch the phone on: instantly the treble quality will fall off the cliff, go all flat and scratchy ...
Let me see if I can follow your thinking here. You're saying the DAC can't be responsible for restricting the perceived dynamics because you can further restrict the perceived dynamics by moving your (alive and kicking) phone adjacent to the CD player?
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Old 29th September 2012, 05:54 AM   #74
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Let me see if I can follow your thinking here. You're saying the DAC can't be responsible for restricting the perceived dynamics because you can further restrict the perceived dynamics by moving your (alive and kicking) phone adjacent to the CD player?
Yes, it's a bit like saying expensive turntables are not much good for playing records, because the cartridges tend to mistrack if you bang your fist repetitively on the table where the TT is; otherwise ...

Or to be more reasonable about it: I don't have a problem with dynamics on my setups: multibit, or S-D. In fact, if anything the current S-D beast has more dynamics than the Yamaha multi-bit, but that's really a factor of the Yamaha being intrinsically quite "smooth", and that I've learnt more about overall system tweaking along the way. Where I have trouble is in maintaining the "sweetness" or clarity of the treble, which is just another way of saying that distortion can easily intrude. The mobile, like a myriad of other factors, can easily throw the DAC off its food , in my system because of the low cost nature of the circuitry this manifests as a dirtiness or somewhat glaring quality, pretty unpleasant; on more "refined" systems this may sound like dull, boring sound, or the seeming disappearance of all sound elements below a certain volume level, I find this behaviour quite bizarre!

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 29th September 2012 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 29th September 2012, 09:30 AM   #75
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RF interference degrades the sound in one way, but our ears perceive the degradation in a different way. Is this news?
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Old 29th September 2012, 10:09 AM   #76
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Not news, just something that's not worried about enough by the designers. For the last 30 odd years audiophiles have been wringing their hands in anguish about digital not being good enough, not coming up to the mark. Well, in my experience interference, especially that related to RF, is a key factor that drags down the subjective quality of CD sound, is what makes people complain that it doesn't have an "analogue quality"; not the number of bits or sampling rate or levels of jitter ...

Frank
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