Would a 32bit floating point dac/adc system remove the need for dither? - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 3rd May 2012, 09:01 PM   #21
sesebe is offline sesebe  Romania
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Old 3rd May 2012, 09:45 PM   #22
sreten is online now sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJNUBZ View Post
CD is dead, DVD-A and SACD are not going to supplant it, in fact all audio going forward will be digital transfered. MP3 is far from dead but the end is in sight, it has had a good 10 years but it will not have 10 more. FLAC or ALAC will be the next standard, or something that is similarly lossless. I just think that the next format needs to be designed for the future, not for planned obsolescence. As the internet has shown, planned obsolescence works great for the analog world, nothing really ever leaves the digital world.
Hi,

CD is not dead, far from it. It was a natural archive standard to store
all music that preceded it, and now we are stuck with it. If you have
a CD standard archive of an analogue recording, there is no point
re archiving from the original to a higher standard, its pointless.

It will never be supplanted as an audio standard with alternatives,
or become obsolescent due to "better" digital standards. It is
what it is, a system capable of archiving analogue recordings
to a quality standard well beyond the best analogue tape.

Which is if course better than vinyl. Best pure analogue is tape.

rgds, sreten.

Many CD's sound poor. Nothing to do with the CD standard.
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Old 4th May 2012, 01:14 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hi,

Many CD's sound poor. Nothing to do with the CD standard.
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Old 19th September 2012, 04:13 AM   #24
JZatopa is offline JZatopa  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
That may be nice sentiment but it doesn't take much more then this graph to see where CD sales have trended since the middle of the last decade. Let me tell you the trend line does not rise after 2004.

Click the image to open in full size.


CD is a dead format. Like sreten says "it was a natural archive standard to store all music that preceded it". Standards grow and change with time and technology.

A good example of all this are all the movies are being rescanned and put on bluray look better then the DVD and VHS versions that preceded it. VHS was the standard, then DVD and now Bluray. 4K TV is now being released and 8k UHDTV will be the standards we move to in the next few years. Audio of some sort will do the same. I will never understand why people think there will be an end to the move for better or that we will achieve an unsurpassable level in anything.

Last edited by JZatopa; 19th September 2012 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 19th September 2012, 04:29 AM   #25
JZatopa is offline JZatopa  United States
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I feel like you guys are missing the forest for the trees. Bit depth has more then just an affect on S/N ratio. It also is a measure of the smallest step along a waveform we can measure.
Click the image to open in full size.
It is this finer measurement and representation that makes 24bit sound more "analog". Has there been a measurement of the human ear's bit resolution perception is? I agree that 24bit may be the point of diminishing returns but storage and processing is so cheap there is no reason to not push the envelope here.
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Old 26th September 2012, 05:31 AM   #26
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But step size **IS** SNR. The equation is SNR = 6.02*N + 1.76 dB, where N is the number of bits.

Step size determines your quantization noise. And quantization noise looks a lot like analog noise at higher values of N.

There has been lots of work to determine what humans can resolve, both analog and digital. Get an ABX plugin for your favorite music player and you can try yourself. You'll probably be surprised just how good even 16 bits can be at normal listening levels.
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Old 26th September 2012, 07:30 AM   #27
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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There is one advantage to having a higher resolution format, that being that no oversampling or filtering of any kind will need to be applied to the output of the DAC, can go straight into the amplifier. A lot of the reasons digital often doesn't cut it is that the electronic fiddling required to produce a clean, analogue waveform is not well executed currently, and ultimately corrupts the sound. An absolutely mimimum cost way for getting the analogue back, at the time of playback, should hopefully mean that even the most incompetent companies should get it reasonably right ...

Frank
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Old 26th September 2012, 08:51 AM   #28
SY is offline SY  United States
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Is it time to trot out the link to Werner Ogiers' article and demonstration for the umpteenth time?
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Old 26th September 2012, 09:07 AM   #29
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

the 32Bit DACs are no true 32Bit resolution, but 24Bit with an additional 8Bit register in the input. See for example the datasheets of TI.

jauu
Calvin
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Old 26th September 2012, 09:31 AM   #30
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42
There is one advantage to having a higher resolution format, that being that no oversampling or filtering of any kind will need to be applied to the output of the DAC, can go straight into the amplifier.
With a sampled system you always need filters. Fortunately, you always have filters. With sufficiently fast sampling the filters are already built-in to your system so you might not notice them, but they are there: microphone bandwidth, preamp bandwidth, loudspeaker bandwidth.

A basic point overlooked in this thread is that if we eventually have the capability to produce virtually noiseless electronics etc. then we might all go back to using analogue storage mechanisms. We only need digital because of analogue noise.
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