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Old 9th March 2012, 09:16 PM   #21
SY is offline SY  United States
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Yes, but the new work could then have joint copyright as the unchanged parts would still be owned by their original author.
Yes, the advent of sampling and mash-ups has made this area of law quite dynamic.
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Old 9th March 2012, 11:54 PM   #22
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I'm trying to say that you don't understand the basics of copyright law- or you do and you're desperately trying to rationalize your desire to steal.

Information cannot be copyrighted. Text and pictures can be.
Text and pictures CAN be copyrighted IF they are NEW art.
That's not the case in this issue. AD, TI might have a say to that, but they choose to give it away free, for everyone, on their site. The only STEAL is when D&M claims copyright on somebody else work (TI, AD, NJM, hundreds of EE engineers that developed shematics that are basis of their design).
What's so hard to understand?

Last edited by SoNic_real_one; 9th March 2012 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 10th March 2012, 12:16 AM   #23
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What's to say it isn't new art?

Sure the denon DVD player might contain a standard DSP + DAC + Output circuitry, but the way in which the different parts are interfaced, or even that that specific combination of silicon is used together could make it entirely unique. Not to mention that if any of the component values are changed from a datasheet value that the product now becomes something completely different.

It is frustrating that they are doing this, but I can understand why and providing one can easily obtain the service manuals for a relatively low cost, then I don't see the problem. I mean once upon a time the internet didn't exist and if one wanted to service their own piece of equipment they'd have to request the service manual from the manufacturer and that would have still cost you.
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Old 10th March 2012, 12:38 AM   #24
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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<snip> I mean once upon a time the internet didn't exist and if one wanted to service their own piece of equipment they'd have to request the service manual from the manufacturer and that would have still cost you.
Exactly.. Or you could get it from SAMs, so either way you were still paying. Only in very large city or engineering school libraries were you even likely to find SAMs Photofacts manuals that you could borrow free of charge.
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Old 10th March 2012, 02:29 AM   #25
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Not to mention that if any of the component values are changed from a datasheet value that the product now becomes something completely different.
Legally one number or letter or common word cannot be copyrighted. If the drawing is the same as in datasheet (and it is otherwise won't work) and the only difference is the "value" next to a resistor, that number cannot be copyrighted by itself. Intel found that out when they sued AMD for number 486 and they had to name next one Pentium.
Also, the letter "k" (or other multiplier) that is listed in International System of Units, besides the fact that is just one letter, cannot be copyrighted by somebody else.
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Old 10th March 2012, 08:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
[snip]The only STEAL is when D&M claims copyright on somebody else work (TI, AD, NJM, hundreds of EE engineers that developed shematics that are basis of their design).
That's not what D&M do. They create a manual. It's their work. They can do whatever they want with it. Give it away, or charge a million.
YOU can't do anything with it unless they allow it. It's not yours.

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[snip]
What's so hard to understand?
Indeed.

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Old 10th March 2012, 10:35 AM   #27
SY is offline SY  United States
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What's to say it isn't new art?

Sure the denon DVD player might contain a standard DSP + DAC + Output circuitry, but the way in which the different parts are interfaced, or even that that specific combination of silicon is used together could make it entirely unique.
Absolutely true. And even if not, there's a new drawing of all the elements drawn from different source. Parts are numbered. PCB layouts are shown. Voltages are indicated. Text is added. Service instructions are written.

The strained rationalization for wanting to steal other people's property is astonishing to me.
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Old 10th March 2012, 11:19 AM   #28
godfrey is offline godfrey  South Africa
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Only the drawing of it is copyrightable, not the circuit itself. Yes, every single one of those disclaimers that we see so often ("This circuit is for personal use only and may not be used for commercial purposes") is completely invalid unless the circuit is patented.
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Information cannot be copyrighted. Text and pictures can be.
So even after a "take down" notice has been served, it's still OK to redraw the circuit and post that? (same circuit, different drawing) Similarly, one could reword the other info in the service manual and post the paraphrased version? e.g. "According to the service manual, bias should be set by adjusting...."
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Old 10th March 2012, 11:35 AM   #29
SY is offline SY  United States
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If it's not a direct copy of the original drawing, you're probably safe. If I were to do something like that and include what's clearly a line by line paraphrase of the copyrighted work, I'd want a good lawyer.
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Old 10th March 2012, 12:11 PM   #30
godfrey is offline godfrey  South Africa
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Obviously not line by line, just the important/useful stuff. To start with, leave out "Thank you for am buy fine chinese product", instructions on how to plug it into a wall socket, the warning not to immerse it in water etc. Presto, you're down from 16 pages to one page already. Now summarize what's left into a half-page "Readers Digest condensed" version.

Hmm... That's actually something I'd prefer to download, instead of the original.
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