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Old 16th December 2011, 10:34 AM   #11
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Yep, but that is not all. THD+N is another important number. Some give that as %, some as -dB...
For me, the "multibit" DAC's are not sounding better than 1-bit ones - at lest the TDA1541 sounds even "worse" than the new delta-sigma DAC's.
People are just nostalgic sometimes.
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Old 16th December 2011, 10:38 AM   #12
CENTRAL is offline CENTRAL  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
People are just nostalgic sometimes.
...which is not necessarily a bad thing!

We need to remain as humaine as possible these days...
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Old 16th December 2011, 11:04 AM   #13
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Then again, the very same DAC chip on the very same implementation can sound (and measure) quite different just by tampering with it's internal filter settings.

Now put into the picture DAC chips from different manufacturers (who often follow different means to the same end and who don't necessarily have the same know-how - some, for example, excel at apodizing filter design), different generations and types of chips from the same manufacturer and, last but not least, different principles of operation (Delta-Sigma, R-2R ladder etc.) and you get the idea....
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Old 16th December 2011, 11:08 AM   #14
CENTRAL is offline CENTRAL  Greece
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Originally Posted by TheShaman View Post
Then again, the very same DAC chip on the very same implementation can sound (and measure) quite different just by tampering with it's internal filter settings.
By altering the way the chip is setup (defining it's internal parameters), or is it something different you have in mind?
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Old 16th December 2011, 11:19 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by CENTRAL View Post
By altering the way the chip is setup (defining it's internal parameters), or is it something different you have in mind?
I refer to choosing the chip's internal filter settings on the fly via software/micro-controller.
Many commercial and DIY DACs allow you to do that.
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Old 16th December 2011, 04:31 PM   #16
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Sonic wrote:
"For example using passive I/V conversion will give very different results on different DAC's (due to internal sensitivity to value of output load) - but all of the pasiive will sound worse than a good OpAmp. Using the recomended OpAmp will minimize that variation."

Hogwash. Central, don't you believe a word of that. Sonic is taking what is his own listening preference and making blanket claims about what will be the preference of others. All passive (meaning, a simple resistor from the current DAC output pin to ground) i/v implementations may sound worse than a "good" op-amp to sonic, but they may not all sound worse to you. In fact, you might find that you have a great preference for passive i/v, depending on the specific implementation. Not all, or even most, current output converter (DAC) chips are suitable for passive i/v, but some most certainly are. In fact, some of the most acclaimed commercial conversion stages utilize passive i/v, such as those from Audio Note, Ypsilon (I believe), BAT, and others.
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Last edited by Ken Newton; 16th December 2011 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 16th December 2011, 04:49 PM   #17
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IMHO most imprortant part of a DAC that defines "sound signature" is an interpolation filter something like TI DF1706.

Modern HiEnd DACs are using sound processors insted ICs and custom wavelet based algorithms.
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Old 16th December 2011, 08:02 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by suntechnik View Post
IMHO most imprortant part of a DAC that defines "sound signature" is an interpolation filter something like TI DF1706.

Modern HiEnd DACs are using sound processors insted ICs and custom wavelet based algorithms.
Yes, I greatly agree with that observation.
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Old 16th December 2011, 11:17 PM   #19
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If the signal is already at 96kHz/24bit, the interpolation does not make a lot of difference.
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Old 19th December 2011, 12:30 PM   #20
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by CENTRAL View Post
Does DNR mean Dynamic Range?
Yes. It is related to Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR). This is intrinsic to the chip so not much you can do with external components.
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